4Y versus 22R

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safarinut
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Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:30 pm

Hi

How does the 4Y engine compare to the 22R,i know its only hunded and something difference in the cc, but is any one more reliable,fuel efficient, better in the rough or open road than the other, i presume the truck body and chasiss are the same.

Trevor
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Wed Feb 18, 2009 11:21 pm

I think the mayor difference comes in serviceability in SA. The 22R is a rock solid motor maybe even more robust then a 4Y, depends on who you ask, because it was not so widely used here as the 4Y spares become an issue even the Agents don't carry a slot of spares. I am now again waiting a week for a thermostat for Riaans van. The 4y was more widely used and many more units sold and because of the Taxi market, good quality affordable replacements parts and complete engines are readily available.

From a performance perspective it is a gain a case of 6 of the one and half dozen of the other. Standard they both develop much the same power, the mayor difference comes in the fact that the 22R develops peak power at mid 4000 RPM range and the 4Y at about a 1000 RPM lower. For that reason they had different final ratios on the diffs but used the same gearboxes. So theoretically the 22R should have a higher top speed. :shifty: :shifty:
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dalkill
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Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:16 am

a buddy I knew had both.
he said the 2.4 sucked on sand. kept had to be recovered whereas with his 2.2 never once.
there is a thread about this somewhere.

but it's interesting that the 2.2 develops peak power at 1000rpm less than the 2.4.
so theoretically it should be lighter on petrol? is this the case?
2007 d4d 3.0 D/C 4x4 (Mar 2016 - current) (Buraaq V)
2003 Isuzu KB300 tdi LX D/C 4x4 (May 2015 - Feb 2016) aka Buraaq IV
2000 hilux DC 2.7 4x4 (Jul 2011 - Sep 2012) aka Buraaq III
1999 RXI 20v (Nov 2009 - Jul 2011) aka Quicksilver
1990 hilux DC 2.2 4x4 (Jun 2008 - Jul 2011) aka Buraaq II
1997 corolla 160i GLE (Feb 2007 - Sep 2009) aka Green Goblin
1990 GLI twincam (still my fav rolla) (Oct 2005 - Mar 2007) aka Wit Blitz
Golf GTI 2.0 (temp insanity for 2months) (Jun 2005 - Aug 2005) aka A mistake
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Mr_B
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Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:34 am

Based on the fact that a 4Y produces it's max torque @ 2000rpm and a substantial percentage of that at just above 1000rpm, the 4Y is a better option for low rpm rock crawling and the like.

Bit more info on the 22R(last in the R series engines) from wikipedia:

**********************************************

22R
The 2-valve SOHC 2.4 L (2366 cc) 22R was produced from 1981 through 1995.
Cylinder bore was 91.9 mm (3.62 in) and stroke was 88.9 mm (3.5 in).

Initial output was 97 hp (72 kW) at 4800 rpm and 129 ft·lbf (174 N·m) at 2800 rpm.
By 1990 the 22R was producing 108 hp (81 kW) at 5000 rpm and 138 ft·lbf (187 N·m) at 3400 rpm.

The first fuel injected 22R-E engines appeared in 1983.
Output of these engines is commonly rated at 105 hp (78 kW) at 4800 rpm and 137 ft·lbf (185 N·m) at 2800 rpm.

In 1985, the engine was significantly reworked, output was up to 112 hp (84 kW) at 4600 rpm and 142 ft·lbf (192 N·m) at 3400 rpm. Many parts from the newer 22R-E are not compatible with those from the older pre-1985 engine. Non-compatible parts include the cylinder head, block, pistons and many of the associated parts such as the timing chain and cover, and water and oil pumps (although the oil pump internals are the same).

Toyota swapped the dual row timing chain used in older engines for a single row chain with plastic guides in 1983. This system reduced drag on the engine, but was inherently problematic. Every 80,000 to 140,000 miles, the chain stretches to the point that the hydraulic-operated chain tensioner can not take up any more slack. When this happens, the timing chain impacts driver's side chain guide, breaking the plastic within a few hundred miles of driving. If the engine continues to be operated after the guide breaks, the chain will stretch rapidly (an unfortunate characteristic of single row chains.) The loose chain causes inaccurate ignition timing which usually results in noticeable rough running. It may also rub a hole in the soft aluminum timing cover, resulting in engine coolant being forced into the oil sump and ultimately destroying the engine. In continued operation the chain can jump a tooth on the drive sprocket or break entirely, with either case resulting in engine damage from valve-piston collisions.

The turbocharged 22R-TE (sold from late 1985 through 1988) produced 135 hp (101 kW) at 4800 rpm and 173 ft·lbf (234 N·m) at 2800 rpm.

However, its weakness is high-end power. Thus, most performance enthusiasts usually prefer the Toyota 18R-G, 2T-G, 4A-GE and 3S-GE 4-cylinder engines, The 22R has a bigger displacement and a strong block, but its comparatively long stroke limits its use in high revving applications.

The engines are extremely well known for their durability, high fuel efficiency and good low to mid range torque.

**********************************************

The wikipedia info on the 4Y is minimal, but here we go:

The Toyota Y engine is a design that's a combination of the Toyota T engine, and the Toyota R engine, in a way that's similar to how the Toyota F engine is a design of the Toyota Type B engine, and the Chevrolet inline-6.

The valve arrangement from the Toyota K engine is interchangeable with this engine.

OHV 8 valve
Aerodynamic volume displacement: 2.237L
Inside diameter × distance: 91.0×86.0 (mm)

**********************************************

B
Dadz Toy BFI

Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:57 am

snipes wrote: Toyota swapped the dual row timing chain used in older engines for a single row chain with plastic guides in 1983. This system reduced drag on the engine, but was inherently problematic. Every 80,000 to 140,000 miles, the chain stretches to the point that the hydraulic-operated chain tensioner can not take up any more slack. When this happens, the timing chain impacts driver's side chain guide, breaking the plastic within a few hundred miles of driving. If the engine continues to be operated after the guide breaks, the chain will stretch rapidly (an unfortunate characteristic of single row chains.) The loose chain causes inaccurate ignition timing which usually results in noticeable rough running. It may also rub a hole in the soft aluminum timing cover, resulting in engine coolant being forced into the oil sump and ultimately destroying the engine. In continued operation the chain can jump a tooth on the drive sprocket or break entirely, with either case resulting in engine damage from valve-piston collisions.
B
Good post Britz :thumbup:

Very valuable information for 22R owners nê :Geek:
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Borntofish
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Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:51 am

Well I am testing a 4Y now, My 22r lasted for 420 000kms. It was superb motor and I never had any issues driving over sand. When it eventually decided to go the the big scrapheap in the sky I fitted a Korean 4y from Commercial Auto. The difference is definite improvement low down torque. It keeps speed better on certain uphills around Gauteng that I have tested it on.

Of road I can't be to elaborate as I only use my Lux for over landing trips which normally is around Maputaland and Mozambique.
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Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:31 am

4Y is beter!
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Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:34 am

Boyh are just as good as each other. There was no ratio diffirence between the two both came in hiluxes with 4.88 ratio.
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dalkill
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Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:44 am

so if I'm going up sir lowry's pass I need to keep it at 2000rpm?
2007 d4d 3.0 D/C 4x4 (Mar 2016 - current) (Buraaq V)
2003 Isuzu KB300 tdi LX D/C 4x4 (May 2015 - Feb 2016) aka Buraaq IV
2000 hilux DC 2.7 4x4 (Jul 2011 - Sep 2012) aka Buraaq III
1999 RXI 20v (Nov 2009 - Jul 2011) aka Quicksilver
1990 hilux DC 2.2 4x4 (Jun 2008 - Jul 2011) aka Buraaq II
1997 corolla 160i GLE (Feb 2007 - Sep 2009) aka Green Goblin
1990 GLI twincam (still my fav rolla) (Oct 2005 - Mar 2007) aka Wit Blitz
Golf GTI 2.0 (temp insanity for 2months) (Jun 2005 - Aug 2005) aka A mistake
1993 hilux SC 2.2 4x4 (April 2003 - Sept 2005) aka Buraaq

TOYOTA IS MY LEWE
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Mr_B
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Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:03 pm

dalkill wrote:so if I'm going up sir lowry's pass I need to keep it at 2000rpm?
Well the 4Y produces max torque at 2200rpm, if you have the dud AR40 cam in then max torque is about 3200(horrible)...

Remember max torque is not max KW!

B
Dadz Toy BFI

Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:12 pm

dalkill wrote:so if I'm going up sir lowry's pass I need to keep it at 2000rpm?
On Sir Lowry's I'm afraid your looking at 2nd Gear and a bit of a leisurely speed to get keep you in the best torque range. :roll:

4YEFi however is a different story nê, flying in 4th and 5th all the way bru :mrgreen:
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Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:24 pm

Dadz Toy BFI wrote:On Sir Lowry's I'm afraid your looking at 2nd Gear
Not quite Dalkies.. 3rd gear is a nice long one and will get you over the pass in no time... even with a full load, your mother-in-law and the dogs.. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
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Dadz Toy BFI

Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:35 pm

Kaspaas wrote:
Dadz Toy BFI wrote:On Sir Lowry's I'm afraid your looking at 2nd Gear
Not quite Dalkies.. 3rd gear is a nice long one and will get you over the pass in no time... even with a full load, your mother-in-law and the dogs.. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:
Ok, so you should have a tad more power than my old 3 1/2 Cylinder donkie. :wth:

(Still advisable to get yourself a donkie whip, yeee-haaar) :lol:
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dalkill
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Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:13 am

must say last time I went up there I did 3rd gear, fully loaded, with trailer, and managed to maintain 60kph. Even managed to pass a truck :clap:
On the top , I tapped her on the dash, and said that's my girl :D:
2007 d4d 3.0 D/C 4x4 (Mar 2016 - current) (Buraaq V)
2003 Isuzu KB300 tdi LX D/C 4x4 (May 2015 - Feb 2016) aka Buraaq IV
2000 hilux DC 2.7 4x4 (Jul 2011 - Sep 2012) aka Buraaq III
1999 RXI 20v (Nov 2009 - Jul 2011) aka Quicksilver
1990 hilux DC 2.2 4x4 (Jun 2008 - Jul 2011) aka Buraaq II
1997 corolla 160i GLE (Feb 2007 - Sep 2009) aka Green Goblin
1990 GLI twincam (still my fav rolla) (Oct 2005 - Mar 2007) aka Wit Blitz
Golf GTI 2.0 (temp insanity for 2months) (Jun 2005 - Aug 2005) aka A mistake
1993 hilux SC 2.2 4x4 (April 2003 - Sept 2005) aka Buraaq

TOYOTA IS MY LEWE
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GTO
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Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:15 am

My 2.4 SRX (22R Engine) pulls up Sir Lowrys at 120km/h in 4th no problem(4x2 single cab no raised body). :twisted:

My 2700i I find is better in 3rd(max torque 4000rpm)
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:cooldude:
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Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:48 pm

I had a 22 R D/C for many years of over landing and everything, including the weight that goes with this type of travel.
A friend who traveled with me had the 4 Y S/C. When we filled up, mostly in excess of 100 - 120 L of Fuel, I would use about a liter or two max, more than him.
He could however not stay with me on long uphills, even eventually falling out of my slip stream, which he used to tow him up hills.
I never had a problem with thick sand (Kaudom in north east Namibia - Bushman land, Soussusvlei, as well as Goantagab River bed in Damaraland), or rock crawling (van Zyl's Pass and and the Naukluft mountains which are now closed for vehicular use, because of being very steep and in poor condition).
When traveling I am normally loaded in excess of 3 000 kg then you can still add 3 - 4 big bags of wood.
I also did Sani Pass fully loaded and with 5 bags of wood on the roof carrier.
To carry the weight the Hilux had an extra main spring all around, as well as Load Hog helper springs on the back.
The more she was loaded, the more comfortable the drive. I averaged about 7.5 km/l.
The Hilux was not called the "Little Red Donkey" for nothing...
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Farmerbrown
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Tue Jan 08, 2019 1:46 pm

Hi gents . Maybe my 22R is a bit weak. At 3000 rpm , where I like to keep it. She hasn't that much power on hills. Should I not be scared to review her a bit more ?

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Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:45 pm

I had both in my early days of 4x4 ing and my choice would be the 4y.
My Toyota is my passport to freedom!
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