Bro Speed conversions

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:55 am

I am having an Bro Speed conversion on my 22R 2.4 Hi lux and I have airflowed the head with the intake manufault and done the cam as well. There are a lot more power but it seems to me that I do not get the timing set in the correct degrees. I have heard that Bro speed have an diferent timing adjust than the normal book settings. Any help or suggestions asseblief.

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:23 pm

First of all, is that army base still up there in Upington, I think it was called 1SAI I was there for three weeks when I was called up many years ago, will never forget the time when some fool turned off the drinking water supply to the taps and some poor sod jumped off a roof to try and get out of going to the army.

Well getting back to the topic, have you considered putting your vehicle on a Dyno Tester?

Sometimes there are more than one mark on the front crank pulley. What size ID exhaust pipe was fitted, how many boxes and who fitted the system, is it mild or stainless steel, what branch was fitted, in other words how many pipes from the cylinder head.

What size tyres does your vehicle have and what pressures are you running them?

Is your air intake not restricted in any way?
When you press the excelerator pedal, is there a flat spot, tell us what happens, when the vehicle is ideling, try increasing the fuel mixture to be slightly richer.

Post by **pietpetoors** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:25 pm

Do you really think there are dynos in Upington?

Post by **pietpetoors** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:31 pm

Knersus, I will refer back to my Golf days again.
I remembered that we also fitted hot cams in the golf. The problem was the same that you are experiencing now. You never can get the valve timing 100% correct because the cam now sits a bit out of the original position.

On the Golfs we fitted what was called a "vernier pulley". It is actually an adjustable camshaft gear. This helps to adjust the valve timing between the teeth of the timing gear, if you know what I mean. You can set the timing either one tooth this way or that way, but not in between. With the vernier pulley you can actually set it a portion of a tooth this or that way.

I am sure that the people who did the conversion must be able to give advice or rectify the problem.

Sorry about the Upington joke, my wife grew up in Upington and I had to spend some Christmasses there in the heat.

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:37 pm

Well can you believe it some guy had a dyno here in Queenstown, he could not make any money with it and eneded up selling it for less than he originally paid for it, that gear that you talk about is the first time I have heard of such an item, this could solve the problem, but where to find one would be the question.

Was just thinking, maybe this vehicle could be sucking air in somewhere as well on the intake or vacumn system.

Post by **pietpetoors** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:44 pm

O ja, are you talking valve timing fire timing?

Post by **pietpetoors** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:55 pm

Simon that gear is easy to make if you have a milling machine.
They take the gear and cut off the spokes (do not know what else to call it)

They then drill and tap a 6mm hole on each spoke and also on each end of each spoke.
You cut a disc to fit inside the gear. The outer spoke gets bolted on the disc through a normal hole. The inner spoke gets a slot in the disc so that you can adjust it before you tighten it.

I hope you will be able to figure it out without pictures, I am not too good with drawing pictures.
Perhaps this will help, these are the real things, the last one looks more like a home made one.

Post by **pietpetoors** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:59 am

Knersus, I gave it some thought at 3am this morning.
You know if you go down to the coast the atmospheric pressure is higher than in Upington resulting in more oxygen entering the combustion chamber. They set the timing for coastal conditions, I think they set it 2 or 3 degrees faster (or slower, Help Simon).

Anyway, because of the Brospeed thing where they did your ports you now get more air into the engine, would it not have the same effect as going down to the coast?

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:48 am

Thanks for the reply and feedback guys. Pieter I did not ment that you should stay up with my problem

until early nights.

OK to answer a few questions.

Ja the army base 8SAI is still here and it is going well with them as the 61 Meg battalion of Lohatla is now based in Upington.

I had the vehicle on a Dyno in Kimberley( that is the only one in 400km raduis

) and the same problem with air pressure was experienced but the performance was a bit better after that. After about 4 months I decided to krap a bit on the carb and timimg again to try and get it "better". The Exhause system is a stainless steel freeflow with two boxes with an diameter of 58mm, this was done by FIT IT in Upington. It was also custom build as the origional pypes will not go pass the 2 nd petrol tank. The branch is a 4 into 2 and then into 1 bro speed and I bought the vehicle with the branch. The tyres is 265 15' wrangles and normally runns 2 bar pressure on tar. The vehicle is fitted with a snorkel and the cylinder head and cam was worked on. The cam does not really effect the ideling as it was only stage one cutted according to them. The head was done by Ivan Walker enginering in Stilfontein and the cam was done by Van Der Linde in JHB. They have also installed bigger valves in the head as well.

When the vehicle is ideling and I excelerate there is a stage whereby it feels that there are no power( no plat spot or stuttering) and then all a sudden it jumps out of his brackets and starts revving up. The timing is now currently set at 8 degrees BTC with a CO mixture of 1.8.

I must say I compared my 2.4 Hi Lux with the similar hi luxes in March during a trip to Meob bay in the Namib and the money spend on the conversion was worth it as my Hi Lux did realy well compared to the other.

At this stage I feel that I must get the settings all in place to have the most effective power and fuel econnomy that I can get out of it.

Post by **pietpetoors** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:30 pm

Moenie worrie Eben, die uil op die dak het my wakker gemaak, toe dink ek skielik daaraan.

Post by **Family_Dog** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:38 pm

pietpetoors wrote:Moenie worrie Eben, die uil op die dak het my wakker gemaak, toe dink ek skielik daaraan.

My Staffie puppy woke me up at about the same time to go for a P, but I never lost much sleep after that :)

-F_D

Post by **pietpetoors** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:23 pm

When the vehicle is idling and I excelerate there is a stage whereby it feels that there are no power( no plat spot or stuttering) and then all a sudden it jumps out of his brackets and starts revving up.

Could that not rather be something with the carb where you go from idle stage to first stage?

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 10:22 pm

Have you considered fitting a higher pressure fuel pump. I recon that if you had a larger ID size exhaust pipe it would perform better, throw out the one silencer as well.

On my Hilux, I have a free flow exhaust system with a branch as well, it has the std 4Y engine fitted and this engine and system performs very very well, I have one silencer fitted.

Getting tired now, must go in case I get woken up by "Family Dogs" doggie barking again at 3am in the morning

it seems that it was chasing the mice again.

Maybe Jenne and Scott and his doggie can become friends.

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:57 am

I do not think the petrol pump is a problem as it is not jerking at high revvs. It might be the carb but I have also heard that Bro Speed conversions timing must be set on another degrees as normal. That is what I would like to know.

The removal of the silencer will not be possible. As I have said the exhause had to be fitted between the two petrol tanks with one big box in front and small box at the back. It is already having a big beat as it is

d4d · Post by **d4d** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:52 pm

Hi Guys

I just bought 3 months ago a 2.4 22R from Vic (Total Garage) in Upington and had it serviced, they told me they adjusted the Timing to 8deg was 5 deg, 8 for coast.

As it happened I was just at Power Flow, Friday afternoon to enquire about Bro-speed. Roddy there has been doing Brospeed for many year and also personally on about 20 of his own Toyotas including a few 4Y and 22R's.

They also do Stainless Steel and recommend not to go bigger than 50mm Pipe as you loose valueble power.
He investigated my current Branch and found it to be a other type and said the current 57mm is to big. Causes more noise and beat though.

So its interesting why they put 58mm on yours. Maybe because you have a beefed up motor its needs better breathing... Mine still stock.
Currently with this setup I get 6.8km/lt driven nicely. He reckon out of experience I can get at least 1k/lt more. That we still need to see.

Only reason I want to change the system is, its has this irritating random hissing sound that Changes tone all the time.

They quoted me R1300 for the branch and R1500 for the system. So will probably have it fitted when I return from JHB mid July.

Keep us posted on the Timing, Just another Though, is the Sparkplugs the right code and should the Gaps be altered a bit because of upgraded engine, maybe giving a warmer spark ?

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:43 am

D4D I know Vic's vehicle and I think you have bought a very nice buy from Vic. That hi lux was well looked after and did not have a lot of km on the odo for its age.

I have played a bit with the timing again and it is set to 10 degrees. It feels now more nippy but will see what the consumption will be.

There are in fact only 3 things that we must admit and that is that these hop hoppies is very thirsty, not made for the most comfort ride and they do not have the power that we would like to have on them. If i can just learn to accept that :?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:20 pm

Thatâ€™s why I originally threw out my 22R. It also had the BroSpeed conversion but was slow as hell and very thirsty.

Top speed on the highway was 120 hammering it without the aircon on and it dropped down to 90 going uphill.

With the 7M-GE I can maintain 130+ if I need to with my fully loaded Bundu Offroad trailer.

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:32 pm

Geez, Benny, those are the speeds I get with my 4Y engine, and I thought I was doing well :)

Seriously, I have decided to leave the 4Y vehicle with its engine standard because I have the 2.7i for touring, this is more my fun vehicle and for distances within 100 ors o kilometres from home, it's fine! We don't have any hills to speak of in the area, we're as flat as lunar landscape so it doesn't bother me.

I started a thread (I think it is in this forum, all these various forums confuse my doggy brain) about restoring the original 4Y engine.

What I would like to do, is to find some more comfortable bucket seats for the old girl - I will start a new topic for that.

-F_D

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sat Jul 14, 2007 3:36 pm

Eric

But there is a general consensus that the 4Y performs better than a 22R and is more economical

Let us know about the seats. Maybe something worth investigating in future as well :D

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 5:57 pm

Family_Dog wrote:Geez, Benny, those are the speeds I get with my 4Y engine, and I thought I was doing well :)

-F_D

Post by **pietpetoors** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:13 pm

Is that with the Hilux with no engine (see your signature)

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 6:51 pm

Imagine if Bennie's Hilux had an engine :D

Bennie, I would be too scared to do that in the old girl. The 2.7, however, is comfortable at that speed!

-F_D

SYRON CONVERSIONS · Post by **SYRON CONVERSIONS** » Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:18 pm

Must have been on a dyno :)

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:08 pm

SYRON CONVERSIONS wrote: Must have been on a dyno :)

On the N1South (Ben Schoeman) around 15:45 during a small gap I found in the traffic. I have another pic where the needle gets stuck against the tripmeter reset pin, but due to an unsteady hand and crappy cellphone camera the foto blurred too much.

BTW It was with my old 7mge engine, before the head went.

Post by **pietpetoors** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:51 pm

En dan wonner jy hoekom hy nie hou nie?

Post by **pietpetoors** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:51 pm

En dan wonner jy hoekom hy nie hou nie?

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Mon Jul 16, 2007 6:07 pm

pietpetoors wrote:En dan wonner jy hoekom hy nie hou nie?

Ek het jou die eerstekeer gehoor

Nee man ek was laasjaar in 'n ongeluk en het hom van die panelbeater af terug gekry met 'n opgeneekte radiator en 'n geblaasde headgasket. Hulle het toe betaal om die head gasket reg te maak maar die ding was net nooit weer dieselfde nie. Maar as ek nou die engine vervang gaan ek 'n paar veranderinge maak Ek noem nou maar die eerste engine R&D /Skoolgeld / ondervinding

Lees bietjie hierso

http://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/sho ... #post59162

Cookie Monster · Post by **Cookie Monster** » Sat Jul 21, 2007 9:11 pm

Hay guys

Can anyone tell me what all goes into the Brospeed conversion

d4d · Post by **d4d** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 1:57 pm

1x Genuine BROSPEED Branch
1x S/S 50mm pipe for Exhaust and applicable silencers (2)

Fit well and enjoy .....

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:21 pm

They also krap around with the cams and head (ports) but it is not worth it.

d4d · Post by **d4d** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:36 pm

Hi Bennie

Ek sien jy se vroeer in die post jy kon net 120 uit jou 22R kry...
My engine is stock ek kom baie maklik tot by 130, het al self op die clock
net onder 150 nou die dag gegooi sonder sukkel, gelyk pad
teen die opdraendes val sy maar bietjie terug,
MY GPS en Clocks met die 31" Mugs is basies spot in so 1-2mm verskil.

Gewoonlik ry ek so 100-120km/h daagliks.

Het jou 22R 'n std Carb gehad ?

Groetnis, jb

Zantus · Post by **Zantus** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 3:12 pm

benhur wrote:

OFF TOPIC!!! Bennie, ek doen dit in 3de teen 6000rpm, GPS true speed.....REGTIG

......en ek het hom al tot op 180km/h gehad, maar net vir so paar sekondes, want dis blerrie scary.....en wat erger is, die disco V8 wat 100kW minder krag het doen ook 180km/h en is nog steeds hanteerbaar teen daai spoed.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Aug 23, 2007 4:15 pm

d4d wrote:Hi Bennie

Ek sien jy se vroeer in die post jy kon net 120 uit jou 22R kry...
My engine is stock ek kom baie maklik tot by 130, het al self op die clock
net onder 150 nou die dag gegooi sonder sukkel, gelyk pad
teen die opdraendes val sy maar bietjie terug,
MY GPS en Clocks met die 31" Mugs is basies spot in so 1-2mm verskil.

Gewoonlik ry ek so 100-120km/h daagliks.

Het jou 22R 'n std Carb gehad ?

Groetnis, jb

Jong hy het 'n Brospeed Branch en freeflow kzauz gehad , std carb maar wat verder gedoen was kon ek nie sien nie. Die motor was nie moeg nie (171 000km) en die oukie wt hom by my gekoop het ry hom nog lekker in sy Cressida met maar hy het now std manifold op.

EK was net nie rerig lus om te sukkel of uit te figure wat fout was nie aangesien ek hom gekoop het met die doel om later die conversion te doen.

Zantus wrote: OFF TOPIC!!! Bennie, ek doen dit in 3de teen 6000rpm, GPS true speed.....REGTIG ......en ek het hom al tot op 180km/h gehad, maar net vir so paar sekondes, want dis blerrie scary.....en wat erger is, die disco V8 wat 100kW minder krag het doen ook 180km/h en is nog steeds hanteerbaar teen daai spoed.

Daai was ook nie die vinnigste wat ek al gery het nie. Daai foto is geneem in traffic een middag op die Ben Schoeman. Ek het hom al gery hom tot omtrent 5500RPM maar dan bewe ek so dat ek nie my foon kan stil hou om 'n decent foto te neem nie. Om teen daai spoed in 'n SFA te ry is 'n erger adrenalien ruch as 'n rollercoaster. As jy so mooi loer sien jy die Grimm Reaper doer onder in die pad staan en jou nader wuif :?

P.S. Moenie Worry nie hier ZAP ons nie sommer off topic posts nie. Hierie spietkops is te lui om boetes uit te deel

Doctor V · Post by **Doctor V** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 5:02 pm

The previous owner(or owner before that) of my bakkie decided that it was to expensive to do the pre-staging for the freeflow system. Needless to say I bought the bakkie with the branch having a hole size of my fist - cleverly disguised with gungum, half a beercan and some wire. And being cold the bakkie would take ages to run properly. Did the Brospeed branch conversion bout 2 months ago and have felt the power increase. I get about 6k/l in the city but please note that I believe in proper traffic flow and hunting taxi's

. Thus mostly at 3500rpm's in 3rd or 4th. Still have to take out on the open road and do 120km/h for more than 10km's since the new branch. Roddy also suggested I take it to specialists for the correct timing setup

Coopraider · Post by **Coopraider** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:36 pm

What impresses me the most in the pic of the clocks - is the fuel gauge past full !!!
Just kidding - wish my diesel " Donkey " could roer it's gat like that!

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:43 pm

Coopraider wrote:What impresses me the most in the pic of the clocks - is the fuel gauge past full !!!
Just kidding - wish my diesel " Donkey " could roer it's gat like that!

Ja what, once in a while a go and kiss the bank manager's feet, wash his car, mow his lawn, run general errands and so on, then he give me some money to fill up my tank

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