Dreaded SFA brake problems

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daniemj
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Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:46 pm

I have gained a lot of information by just going through the forums, but I might get quicker answers by mentioning my bakkie's problem. :problem:
History:When I start to drive, the brakes are working fine, but as you drive a bit and use the brakes, then at some point, the left back brake started locking with only mild braking applied. I have taken my bakkie in to my local mechanic. They have find one rusted brake cilinder (right) which they replaced as well as the brake shoes and one of the self adjusters that needed replacement.
Present: The brakes were fine after I got my bakkie back, but today on the highway I had the same problem where this time, both back brakes now lock with only mild braking applied. This problem, once it started, remains for the rest of the journey.
What are the possible causes? :think:

Dadz Toy BFI

Tue Sep 08, 2009 8:42 pm

Firstly

Welkom Danie, Welkom to the Best 4x4umxfar dude :thumbup: :thumbup:

Jeepers dude, SFA's usually have the opposite problem; under braking, over braking is quite a rare problem :o:

Sounds like you might have an adjustment problem there, ie. the brakes are binding then expanding with heat.

The rear shoe assembly is pretty darn complex till you get to grips with it, are you sure that the guys know what they are doing??

If they've sorted out the rear hydraulic cylinders only thing I can think of is maybe a malfunctioning load sensor valve.

Any other Manne got any suggestions :?:

Mud Dog , Scooter - wot say you asblf :?:

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Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:12 pm

Welcome to the forum Danie :thumbup:

It would appear that since you are now getting even braking between the laft and right rear wheels that the most likely cause is as Rich mentioned, the load sensor valve. It's possible that the linkages to the load sensor are disengaged / loose or the load sensor is stuck open, possibly due to corrosion since this has already appeared in your brake system. If so it results in too much hydraulic pressure to the rear brakes. Remember that most of the braking is achioeved by the front wheels since that's where the most weight is if you're not carrying a load. Additionally the general weight of the vehicle is thrown forward toward the front wheels under breaking. The load sensor is supposed to compensate for this and restrict pressure flow to the rear wheels, and more so as the weight decreases on the rear.
Hope that this helps you locate the cause of your problem. :wink:
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Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:54 pm

Phone me and I will tell you what to do cel 082 499 1924

I had written down all the stuff that you must do, and when I pressed the damn button, it told me that this page cannot be seen, thus I do not feel like re-writing the whole thing now.
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Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:57 pm

Basically smooth off the sharp 90 degree edges of each shoe, make them smooth down to the brake shoe metal, this is where the lining end meets the shoe metal, you can do this in place with a small 115mm angle grinder and grinding disc, but just give me a call.
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Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:01 pm

And remember if you or your mechanic make a stuff up of this mod, you cannot hold me responsible, working on the braking system of any vehicle is a safety factor that must not be played with if you are not sure what you are doing.

It is none of the above items that the other people remarked on. Our 1996 single cab hilux also had this same problem and once we had completed this mod, the problem was gone. :wave: :wave: :thumbup:
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:12 am

What I think Simon is saying is that when you brake the pressure of teh fluid and the springs is pushing the brake shoe outwards (towards the drum) thus causing it to catch on the drum and in turn cause a binding action.

Firstly, what does the drum/shoe mating surface look like? It might have not been enough to replace only the shoes, the drums may have needed a skim or replacement.
The new shoes might be an over size and without skimming the drum to the same correct over size, the shoes are now to big.
Check with your mechanic whether he put standard or over size shoes in (he might not know or might just telle you what you want to hear).

The other problem is the correct adjustment. The SFA likes to bind it's brakes when the incorrect adjustment is at the wheels.
To correctly adjust the shoes:

1) After loosening the rear wheels, jack up and support the vehicle and remove the wheels
2) Mid way and on more on the drivers side is a adjuster where the two handbrake cables join into one to go to the handle, loosen this adjuster till quite slack.
3) Now you should be able to remove the rear drums
4) If you cant remove the drums, it means your screw adjusters in the shoe arrangemnet have been tightened to the max :thumbdown:
5) If this happens, at the back of the drum, on the bottom, is a inspection and adjustment hole. Using a flat screw driver and a torch, you will see the adjuster (looks like a washer with spikes)
6) Use the screwdriver to turn the adjuster (hooking it on the spikes) IIRC down is loosening and up is tightening (but check) adjust till the drum comes off.
7) Once the drum is off, check for broken springs, wear on the sides of the shoes (what simon is taking about) and anything else that may cause it.
8 ) If all is well, place the drum (one at a time is fine) back on.
9) Using your screwdriver again, adjust the screw adjuster from the back of the drum, whilst checking the movement of the drum.
10) Adjust it till the drum stops turning, then slack it off a few turns, till the drum turns freely (but not too freely)
11) Now do the other side teh same.
12) Once both sides are evenly adjusted, you can tighten up the midway adjuster.
13) Tighten it up till the hand brake handle inside pulls out only 4 or 5 clicks, you dont want it around your knees but you also dont want it to pull on the brake shoes and bind the brakes.

Once all that is done, test the car and see if it still has the problem.
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:54 am

I also experienced this problem in the past and the cure was as Scott says, proper adjustment. I must say it has been a while since this problem reared its head. :thumbup: :thumbup:
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daniemj
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:21 am

Thanks a lot guys, you surely do care and know your stuff.
I will have a look, phone the mechanic up to find what exactly was done, and together with all the info you guys gave me, we will hopefully be able to pinpoint the problem.

Dadz Toy BFI

Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:23 am

Nicely diagnosed Dr Scott :P

Best of luck Danie man :thumbup:

R :wink:

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Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:00 pm

You get mechanic's and you get mechanic's who have experience like you guys above, but like I said it is more than an adjustment problem, any genuise can adjust brakes
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Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:23 pm

Hi Guys, just an update.
This morning, with half a cubic of garden soil load, the back wheels still locked first on a gravel dirt road when the brakes were applied. :thumbdown:
Today I have taken off both drums and inspected the brakes. There were a couple of small snags.
1. The adjusters were on the wrong side (left on right side and right on left side).
2. The adjuster cable seems too short (maybe because of the new but different adjuster cable guide's). It pulls too hard on the adjuster lever (also new) which have the effect that even with zero adjustment on the brakes, the adjustment lever is pulled up by the adjustment cable and spring, and does not want to stay down to its probper position which is at the bottom of the adjuster'teeth.
3. The right side have only one tension spring at the bottom in stead of two.


I have refitted the brake drums, set the brakes and I have adjusted the park brake.
I have also changed the setting on the load sensing down from 120mm to 115mm.

I finished a bit late, but at this stage the brakes feel better. :) (I still have to drive a while and use the brakes a couple of times to be sure :? )

I still want to buy the proper toyota adjusting lever, and guide for the adjusting cable. Maybe I should also replace the adjuster's. I also want to replace all the tension springs. Then I will grind those edges off as I have been advised. Any ideas where to buy the necessary adjusting levers etc? :?:

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Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:58 am

SYRON CONVERSIONS wrote:You get mechanic's and you get mechanic's who have experience like you guys above, but like I said it is more than an adjustment problem, any genuise can adjust brakes
I wouldn't be so sure Simon. Adjusting brakes is not something that everyone knows, least of all adjusting the brakes on a SFA. To you and me it is easy, we are or have been in the trade and it is a daily chore. But to someone with limited knowledge it can be a daunting thing taking off the drums and seeing all those springs and plates and not knowing where to start.

That is why it better to give detailed advice rather than just to grind off the edge of the shoe. Not very specific for someone who wants to get it right, escpecially when you mention that if a stuff up is made then you are not liable.

Now most limited knowledge guys will usually just adjust the handbrake cable in the middle and forget about the drum adjustment. And believe me, it is not just the guys who are DIYers with limited experience.
Those of you that have cars in the driveway, go and have a look at the adjustment screw behind the handbrake lever, 9 out of 10 the adjustment is all the way and the mechys are too lazy to do a proper job by releasing it there and adjusting on the wheels. How many of those cars have handbrakes that pull up way to far????? your handbrake lever in a car should only pull up 4 clicks, not to the roof.

Anyway, back to Danies problem. Well done on what you have accomplisehd already.
This is what the manual has to say about locking brakes:

1) Gummy linings due to oil or fluid contamination - renew linings
2) Eccentric brake drums - check and renew
3) Incorrect linings fitted - install correct linings
4) Broken or stretched brakes shoe return springs - check and renew
5) Faulty brake pressure proportioning valve - replace

if this condition arises, first check the condition of the linings for contimination and wear. Check springs with new ones and compare their free length and check eccentricity of drum, this will be indicated by a pulsating feel on the brake pedal.


So as you can see, it is pretty much everything that has been mentioned and that you have covered and replaced.
I don't know if you have a manual or an exploded view of the brake setup so I have attached a few pdfs, choose which one is your model.
YN 65, YN 67 models.pdf
(86.32 KiB) Downloaded 206 times
YN63 model.pdf
(147.36 KiB) Downloaded 128 times
RN36, RN46 models.pdf
(94.49 KiB) Downloaded 145 times
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:54 am

He sent me some pic's, but what has got me thinking here, it seems as if this bakkie of his has had the rear axle changed at some time, as far as I know, they did not come out with this little cable for the self adjusting, I have only seen this on the ventures and newer hilux's, as well as the Hi aces, however I may be wrong as well, but that is beside the point.

I still say that no matter what you see or read in a manual, will not sort this problem out, I am sure that his mechanic would have seen if there is contamination on the brake linings, oval drums, maybe there might even be a bent side shaft.

And you must remember that no matter what advice a person gives to another, it is always better to say unquote, otherwise if something goes wrong, he can sat, that you told him to do this or that, it is the same as directing a person when they are driving their bakkie through an obstacle.

Now going back to the original questions.
History:When I start to drive, the brakes are working fine, but as you drive a bit and use the brakes, then at some point, the left back brake started locking with only mild braking applied. I have taken my bakkie in to my local mechanic. They have find one rusted brake cilinder (right) which they replaced as well as the brake shoes and one of the self adjusters that needed replacement.
Present: The brakes were fine after I got my bakkie back, but today on the highway I had the same problem where this time, both back brakes now lock with only mild braking applied. This problem, once it started, remains for the rest of the journey.
What are the possible causes?
I have gained a lot of information by just going through the forums, but I might get quicker answers by mentioning my bakkie's problem. :problem:
History:When I start to drive, the brakes are working fine, but as you drive a bit and use the brakes, then at some point, the left back brake started locking with only mild braking applied. I have taken my bakkie in to my local mechanic. They have find one rusted brake cilinder (right) which they replaced as well as the brake shoes and one of the self adjusters that needed replacement.
Present: The brakes were fine after I got my bakkie back, but today on the highway I had the same problem where this time, both back brakes now lock with only mild braking applied. This problem, once it started, remains for the rest of the journey.
What are the possible causes? :think:

Please note, and I will say this openly, I am not a brake expert, there are businesses that deal in this specific field, but I do know a little.

And I have just thought of something, maybe we are all looking in the wrong place, maybe there is a problem with the master cylinder, it could also be faulty, it has that little valve inside, maybe it is sticking? I had a problem with a Toyota Corrola the other day, it had a problem with the front calipers binding up as well, we replaced the calipers, still had the problem, we then found that there is a small balancing valve against the firewall, somebody down in George where the vehicle had broken down, had in fact disconnected two pipe from this valve and blanked them off, replaced the valve, sorted out the pipes and bingo all is fine once again

Chat later, off to work now and Scooter Thankyou for all your positive replys :thumbup: [
1992 Slightly Modified Hilux, 2008 VW Caddy panelvan work, 2010 Isuzu 2.5 td bakkie for work, a pair of big 'balloons' as well hanging at the rear of my Hilux

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Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:39 am

I mearly went to a manual to get the layout pictures and came across that passage and thought it would be good to post what they reckoned it could be.
It is true that not every vehicle is the same and us as forumites can only do so much over the net. It is of course always better to take the vehicle to a qualified brake expert but sometimes that just isn't possible. (read:cost)

A little advice will not hurt and Im pretty sure that every one knows if they choose to follow the advice of someone else on the forum that it is done so on their own accord and no one but themselves can be held responsible for the outcome.
We can only advise through our own experience.

Anyway, I have given my 2c worth and I know what has worked for me in the past.

Danie, if your setup is different to the ones I posted then we have to re-look the situation and perhaps the pictures you sent Simon would be good to show here too. But the principal of rear brake shoes stays the same with vehicles thus the above advice still applies.
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:52 am

Thanks Scooter and Syron
I have downloaded most of the manual's available from this website which came in very handy. The brakes on my bakkie is the YN67 brakes. I suspect it was one of those imported models.
I assume the linings and the drum is ok, since the machanic have sent the shoes out together with the drums to be bonded.
I have for quite some time been thinking that the problem might be somewhere in the master cylinder, because the brakes is usually fine, but then after some driving or sudden/hard use of the brakes, the back brakes lock up. After such an insident, the brakes then also lock up on little to medium applications.
But first I want to replace all the springs and I want a whole new set of adjuster's, -cable's and -guides. There was a defenite change after I adjusted the load relief setting, but I will check today whether the brakes remains constant or whether it start locking up after a couple of applications.
I just have to say again how relieving it is to have a forum like this where one can ask questions and get valuable information and advice.
One last question. Will it be best to get the correct springs and cables from a toyota dealer or are there elsewhere where I can get the proper stuff?
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:13 pm

The only place that might stock a spring kit for the lux other than the stealers will be GEMINI in JHB.
They stock most parts for toyota, there main trade being with taxis, and most of their parts are sourced fromt he same manufacturers as Toyota but at a tenth of the price :twisted:

GEMINI PARTS
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:58 pm

I do not think it is the springs, have you had the small rubber flex pipe replaced, what happens sometimes, a small section of the inner part of this pipe comes loose, it then sort of forms a flap in the pipe, thus as you press the brake pedal, it allows fluid through, but will not allow it to return, this is the similar action and problem that takes place in the master cylinder, that little valve with the little holes in it, gets blocked, sometimes when people put oil into the brake system, by mistake, the oil stuffs up the rubbers, this can also happen with age and the brake fluid not been replaced every three years.

It sure will be interesting to hear how you finally solve your problem with all our ideas.

Rear brake flex pipe replace, check master cylinder, grind off the 90 degree edges of the trailing shoes :idea:
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:34 pm

Although I still believe the problem to be in the master cilinder in somehow preventing all the rear brake fluid pressure to return to zero, I want to have all the springs and especially the self adjustment system sorted out. Once I have all the correct parts I will take the drums off and grind the 90 degree edges.
My bakkie doesn't have rubber flexible pipes at the drums. They are all hard pipes.
Another problem is that I can't even buy spares for the drums from the toyota dealers. My bakkie seems to be an import. I will see if the guys from Gemini could quote me on brake parts, but at this stage they are looking for samples. I am also waiting for N1 4x4 to return my email since I can't get hold of them on the phone. As soon as I can get a dealer who can supply me with the correct parts, I have a good chance of getting the brake system sorted out, especially with all the help from this forum.
The brakes lock first at the rear when I brake hard, even with a load on the back.
Just another thing: Before I took my bakkie to the mechanic, I have set my rear brakes to the minimum in order not to have any rear brakes at all. I had only front brakes. Although the front brakes were good, I had to press the brake pedal almost double the amount to get the front to their maximum compared to the rear brakes. Is that how it should be?

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Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:44 pm

There should be one rubbler flex pipe coming down from the chassis to the axle, not one each side.

Do this small test for me.

Climb into your vehicle drivers side, put the vehicle in neutral.
Put your foot on the brake pedal, press slightly down on the pedal.
Start the vehicle and tell me what happens?
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Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:11 pm

When I only press slightly on the pedal and start the bakkie, nothing seems to happen afterwards, but when I press the brakes hard before the time and then start it, then the pedal moves further.

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Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:21 pm

When I am initially driving with my bakkie, there is a certain amount of travel on the brake pedal up to maximum braking. As I am using the brakes, it is as if the brake pedal feel is getting harder while the rear tyres lock with less travel on the brake pedal than before.

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Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:29 pm

Danie if it moves foreward when you are pressing on the pedal then this means that the vacumn booster is working, thus check the other two items that I mentioned, but go for the flex rubber pipe first, then tackle the master, I bought a master for my Hilux a few years back from the dealer and it cost R1 600. do not buy it from the other outlets.

Have you tried Autozone for the spring parts that you want to buy?
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Sat Sep 12, 2009 2:41 pm

At this stage look like the problem is solved! :thumbup:
I have bought a spring kit for both sides from N1 4x4.
This morning I took off the drums, and I filed the edges of the brake shoes with a handfile. I alkso used sandpaper yosmooth out the shoes again.
I installed the new spring kit.
I replace all the old springs with new new ones I bought. I had to modify the adjuster lever slightly on both sides in order to get the adjuster to work perfectly. (On these imported brake systems the brakes adjust itself upon normal brake application compared to the normal hi-lux which gets adjusted upon handbrake usage.)
I have set the brakes and handbrake according to instuction manual and took it for a ride. I have tried 3 full brake applications from a speed of 80km/h on a tar road and all were perfect.
When I have time, I will test it on gravel as well.

I still have to to highway driving and see if the problem remain solved. If the problem do occur again after some driving, at least I know for myself that the brake setup at the rear are 100%

Thanks again everyone for all the advise and encouragement. I knew that if I ran into a problem there are guys who will give advice.

I am off to New York next week, and will give feedback when I am back whether the brakes are still fine and whether the problem re-occured. :think:
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Sun Sep 13, 2009 10:45 am

Glad you got it sorted .... this is one of those things that are safety-critical. :think: .... and I'm sure you're relieved as well. :D: Well done! :thumbup:
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!

daniemj
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Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:03 pm

:thumbdown: The problems with the brakes started again after having driven for 30 minutes.
There are 2 things that might or might not be relevant.
1. Since I got the bakkie back from the mechanic, with the brakes having been replaced, I experienced a virbration on the bakkie having drven for a while which then occurr at a speed in excess of 100km/h. Yesterday,after I stared to experience this vibration, I have used the brakes, and the vibration seems to worsen. (While smoothing the one brakeshoe with sandpaper, there seemed to be an uneven surface on the one brakeshoe).
2. When I have put the brake shoes in the drum to check them, the shoes didn't seem to have a perfect fit, but there were about a 1mm gap on either side of the shoe (top and bottom) with avout 50-70% of the middle part in full contact with the drum? I thought it didn't look right, but assumed that the since the brakes have been bonded, it has been done together with the drums for a perfect fit. I am suspecting either that they have been bonded without being checked in the drum, or maybe it is the wrong brakeshoes from the start. I realize that not every toyota dealer or spare part dealer or especially the previous owner know much about the imported axle which is on this imported bakkie which differ from the standard hi-lux.

I am guessing that because of the uneven fit, the brakeshoe start to heat up unevenly or something happens to cause a vibration after about 30min of highway driving.
After such time, the left rear brake then locks up before the rest. (Both rear rims feel warm after driving. Is this normal after the brakes have been set?)


Any ideas or advice from anyone as to the possible cause of my problems?

The only other thing that the mechanic did while trying to sort out my brakes was to replace all the bushes on the chassis.

Dadz Toy BFI

Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:07 pm

I'm still going with a dodgy Load Sensor bru :wink:

(pleeeeze put down the angle grinder nou - it's not a lekker way to treat a Toy)

daniemj
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Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:56 pm

Does the load sensor valve has anything to do with the returnflow of the hydraulic fluid? In other words, could a malfunctioning load sensor restrict the return flow more and more while using the brakes so that the pressure in the rear brake lines build up all the time, causing the brakes to slowly heating up, with maybe some binding as well, and then when you press the brake pedal, it causes a higher that usual amount of pressure in the rear brake lines?

I am also concerned about the vibration that started for the fisrt time after my bakkie has been at the mechanic. Apart from working on my brakes the mechanic has put in new bushes on the chassis. The bushes can't produce a vibration as far as I know. I initially thought the vibration was caused by my propshaft, but that has been balanced about 3 years and 15000 km ago. Also, no work has been done on the propshaft while it was at the mechanic. Like I have mentioned before, the last time this vibration occurred, the vibration got much worse when I pressed the brake pedal.

As I mentioned before, I was also a bit worried when I saw small "waves" on one of the brake shoes when I smoothed them with sandpaper. Also I am not sure whether there should be a gap of about 1mm on either side of the brake shoe when it is in the drum?
Any ideas?
Maybe I should buy new brake shoes and maybe even drums to start off fresh? If it wasn't for the vibration that I can't explain I would have considered to replace the load sensing valve first.
To refresh everyone, this is an import axle, and the YN 67 model to be more spesific.

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Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:17 pm

Maybe I should buy new brake shoes and maybe even drums to start off fresh?

Maybe not a bad idea, and should'nt be tooooo costly. You can get the drums & shoes (use ATE shoes) from Autozone. It may be a warped drum. :think: At least then if that's not the origin of the problem, it's eliminated.
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!

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Mountain Man
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Sun Sep 20, 2009 6:00 pm

I had the exact problem and am going to write you a nice long story to help you sort this out, please wait for my story and I will post it when I'm done.
ImageIf You Don't Have a SFA, You Don't Have An Offroad Vehicle.

daniemj
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Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:02 pm

Thank you. :) I am looking forward to all the info you have regarding my bakkie's brake problems!

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Mountain Man
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Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:37 am

As promised here is the solution to the exact problem you are having. But first some background info:

My brakes would lock at the slightest touch on the pedal. The drum would bind and get hot. No amount of adjustment would sort it out. The hand brake never worked.

This scenario played itself out over a year.

The problem first developed itself after I had the brakes done by my mechanic. I kept returning to him to sort the binding problem out.

I was told the drums were over skimmed and were oval so I purchased new drums. Same problem.
I was then told that the brake cylinders were faulty and first had them overhauled and then replaced them altogether. Same problem.
I was then told that the shoes were bonded too thick and had them re bonded. Same Problem.
I was then told that it was the hand brake and they loosened it until it wouldn’t work anymore. Same problem.
I was then told it was the automatic adjuster cables were stretched and fitted new ones. Same problem.
I was told it was the load sensor, the master cylinder, the tyres, the suspension etc were all at fault.

As I said this went on for about a year until I was referred to Brake Control at 270 Berg St, Pietermaritzburg 033 342 8223. They managed to sort the problem out and never charged me for it. This gave me working brakes and a working hand brake. I promised that when I needed to have the brakes done again I would come to them which I did recently when I was on holiday from Joburg.

I had forgotten what the solution was but have just phoned them to find out.

SOLUTION: Trim about 10-15mm from both the leading and trailing edges of the lining of both brake shoes on each wheel. That should sort the problem out. Also remember to completely loosen the hand brake and adjust the wheels first. Then when the wheels are adjusted you will adjust the handbrake to pull up to about 5-7 clicks.

This simple thing sorted out a very annoying and expensive problem for me. Reminds me of Cassies overheating problem. Sometimes the solution is very simple to a complex problem.

Good Luck
Last edited by Mountain Man on Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
ImageIf You Don't Have a SFA, You Don't Have An Offroad Vehicle.

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CasKru
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Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:06 pm

Mountain Man wrote:This simple thing sorted out a very annoying and expensive problem for me. Reminds me of Kassies overheating problem. Sometimes the solution is very simple to a complex problem.
Amen to that. My problem should have gone away after R150 (first fault) but ended up at about R6K :shock:
To God be the glory

daniemj
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Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:47 pm

Hallo everyone.
I took my drums and brake shoes off and took them to a Menlyn Brake & Clutch to have the drums skimmed etc. They measured the drums and one was outside it's maximum limit.
I went and bought 2 new "spirex" drums from Autozone and took a drum and the brake shoes back to Menlyn Brake & Clutch. They worked on my brake shoes until they had a perfect fit into the new drums.
I installed everything and at this stage everything is working normally.
Since it is new drums I took it easy on the brakes today, but I have done about 45km without any hassles.
Tomorrow I will have a go again and at least have a couple of harder brake stops to make sure everything is fine.
Thursday I will be driving to the airport again, and if everything is still fine, then the problem should be deemed fixed. If there is still a problem, at least I know it is not at the drums, but either the flexible hydraulic pipe, LSVP, or master cylinder.
Thanks so far everybody for the inputs and the encouragement.

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Mountain Man
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Tue Sep 22, 2009 7:52 pm

Did they reduce the length of the brake linings or are you just going to see if the new drums have solved the problem?
ImageIf You Don't Have a SFA, You Don't Have An Offroad Vehicle.

daniemj
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Wed Sep 23, 2009 8:26 am

I have filed the edges off about a week ago. The brakes were much better after that, but the problem then started after I have driven for a while. I first want to see what is happening with the new drums before I reduce the lenth of the brake linings. Because the edges are filed they are already about 5mm shorter on each side.

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Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:35 pm

Ok, Keep us in the loop, I'm really interested in the results. It took me so long to sort my problem out and I'm just hoping you have found the problem with yours.
ImageIf You Don't Have a SFA, You Don't Have An Offroad Vehicle.

daniemj
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Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:48 am

Hi Guys
I think I have found the problem! :thumbup:
Today I decided to disconnect the linkage to the load sensing valve and see what is going on. It seems that the load sensing valve is stuck in the maximum "in" position. I can find a valve at two different places The one is a new one for R969, and the other is a secondhand one for R450. What do you guys think? :?:
I am glad that I have fitted new drums on the bakkie, because the vibration is now gone.
The brakes work now very nice and smooth, but the rear wheels still lock up when I am using a lot of brake pedal force, which is understandable since the load sensing is not functioning at all.

Dadz Toy BFI

Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:21 pm

daniemj wrote:Hi Guys
I think I have found the problem! :thumbup:
Today I decided to disconnect the linkage to the load sensing valve and see what is going on. It seems that the load sensing valve is stuck in the maximum "in" position. I can find a valve at two different places The one is a new one for R969, and the other is a secondhand one for R450. What do you guys think? :?:
I am glad that I have fitted new drums on the bakkie, because the vibration is now gone.
The brakes work now very nice and smooth, but the rear wheels still lock up when I am using a lot of brake pedal force, which is understandable since the load sensing is not functioning at all.
I won't say :told you so :roll:

Oooops just did :shifty:

R :wink:

daniemj
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Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:12 pm

Dadz Toy BFI, you and Mud Dog was right. It was the load senser, but.....

There were a couple of other problems as well which I had to fix:
1. The mechanic has done a poor job of the installation of the adjusters. I have installed a new kit with adjusters and springs and modified the adjusters so that it work as advertised.
2. The bakkie had a vibration which started after a bit of driving. I have worked the edges off as Scooter advised, and I have installed new drums.
At this point it was the first time since I got my bakkie that the rear brakes were working properly
. It was just the problem of the locking that was still left.
3. Today I checked the load senser as I have been advised by you guys and found it faulty. I bought a new one at N1 4x4 and installed it. I have set it as good as I could according the manual I have downloaded. I have tested the bakkie about an hour ago and it is perfect!!! I can't get the rear wheels to lock up on maximum braking on pavement or tar. :thumbup:

Thanks again veryone for all the suggestions. :wave:

Dadz Toy BFI

Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:22 pm

Awesome man, glad you've come right nou :thumbup: :P

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Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:24 pm

Lekker Danie! :thumbup: Nothing as frightening as dangerously imperfect braking, especially with loved ones in the vehicle. Really glad you got it sorted. :D: Rest assured that all the other things you did were not in vain, better safe than sorry and I bet you learned a lot during the saga. Should you pick up a hassle along the road, you'll have a better understanding of where the problem lies. :wink:
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

Image
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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!

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Mountain Man
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Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:43 pm

I must admit that the problem your vehicle had was so similar to the one mine displayed but I did not think it was the LPV. But I'm glad you have sorted your problem out because I know how frustrating it was for me.

Well done.
ImageIf You Don't Have a SFA, You Don't Have An Offroad Vehicle.

Dadz Toy BFI

Sun Oct 04, 2009 11:11 pm

I'm still battling to get a good handbrake as the levers are still klopping the leaf packs despite fitting extensions. :(

Can anyone fill me in on a good "Internal Modification" (within the rear drums) to allow the arms to sit closer to the 2 'o' clock position rather than the 11 'o' clock position which is too close to the leaf packs to allow sufficient leverage :?:

ie. shorten the small inner cable or lengthen the internal push bar :think: :think:

Tar nê

R :wink:

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Mountain Man
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Mon Oct 05, 2009 2:26 pm

My Hilux had 2 knots tied into the hand brake cable but it was the main handbrake cable from the lever to below the drivers seat. This was so for the last 8 years since I got the vehicle. The cable recently broke, but not where the knots were but rather at the part that goes into the lever. When I fitted the new cable I realised why the old one has knots in. The adjustment is at the max and the handbrake just works. Once the cable streaches I will have to put the knots back in or find out if there is something else I can do to slove the problem. I don't know if this would work in your case. At least it is easy to try and also to reverse.
ImageIf You Don't Have a SFA, You Don't Have An Offroad Vehicle.

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Sifu-Lux
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Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:29 pm

After adjusting the brake balance on my Lux today I was wondering how the LSPV looked inside and worked.

So, I stripped my spare one :shock:

It's off an '87 DC. It was full of greasy muck in some places, but otherwise very clean inside.

I'm surprised after 22 years.
1987 Hilux YN67 LSPV stripped.JPG
Sifu-Lux....I will miss you

Farmerbrown
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Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:00 am

Hi gents .
I know this is an old thread , and has been very useful , as I am experiencing similar issues . After adjusting new brakes I have put in . She seems hundreds , rolls freely . But once I reach my destination +- 10km away . My drums are smoking hot , I have adjusted maybe 5 times with no luck .
I do believe it may have something to do with the load sensor , And i also like the idea of grinding off a bit of pad on the shoe .
Any new suggestions since this thread ran in 2009 ?
Where do I start and how do I test load sensor valve ?
Thanks
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2.5 2015 hardbody 4x4 S/C
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