PV Regulators

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ChrisF
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Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:05 pm

As Pieter loves to say: "You get LED lights, and then you get LED lights".


So I want to say: "You get PV Regulators, and THEN you get PV Regulators ! ".


Technology -
PWM - Pulse Width modulating - this is the cheap and nasty of the trade.

MPPT - Maximum Power Point Tracking - now this baby understands what happens AT the PV panel as the sun moves .... throughout the day it continually tracks the point at which the solar panel can deliver maximum power.


Did you notice that at now point was any mention made of the BATTERY ??? :tongue:


The battery is the most expensive component that WILL be replaced regularly in your system .... there are a few things you CAN do to increase the life of the battery (let's assume we are talking of a sealed deep cycle battery) :
- DONT discharge past 50% SOC
- Use a QUALITY charger, ie a Benton or Victron etc ...
- Use a QUALITY PV regulator, ie HCDP or Victron

DO remember a battery has different charging conditions, such as Boost and Float. And charger or regulator that cant deliver these consistantly and correctly could shorten your battery life ....


You NEED a charger\regulator that will charge upto 14,5V, then drop back to about 13,8V and float charge it.


A charger\regulator that cant reach 14,5V wont ever fully charge your deep cycle. I would hate to think of what is happening inside a battery when a regulator keeps on charging at 1A even after the battery has reached 15V ! EINA !!


I now use the Benton BX2 after a loadshed to safely and properly charge the battery.

For day to day, I use the VICTRON MPPT to provide the best possible charge AND protection for my battery.




and off course you know where I bought the Victron :cooldude: As soon as Pieter has updated his website I will tell you all ... :tease: :mocking: :lmao: :laugh2: :surrender:



I see he now has the VICTRON 220V charger as well ....

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Mon Jun 22, 2015 4:33 pm

How much commission is Pieter paying you?? :evil: :evil:

But thanks for the continual education :siffler:
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Mon Jun 22, 2015 5:34 pm

Baie groot waarhede in Chris se les in Controllers 101. Al staan daar MPPT op die controller, en dis 'n Chinese vertaling, verf en plakkers is goedkoop. As daardie oukies se rook eers uitgekom het , kry jy dit nooit weer terug nie. Bly by name wat effens Duits klink.

Ons vra Chris ook mooi om die sketse van hoe om batterye en banke batterye te laai, op te sit. Baie van ons het al met ( 'n tweede ) pap battery gesit : :oops: :oops:
Word te vinnig oud en te stadig wys.

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ChrisF
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Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:34 pm

Obelix and Dogmatix wrote:How much commission is Pieter paying you?? :evil: :evil:

But thanks for the continual education :siffler:
As jy maar geweet het .... :silent:


Ek kry partykeer sulke kort kriptiese eposse of PM's ..... amper soos jy n bottel KWV laat asem haal voor n alkie .....

en dan kry my kaart maar net weer seer .... :siffler: :surrender:



DIE keer het ek sommer SELF soontoe gegaan en heeltemaal op my eie my kaart laat sweet .... :mocking: :slap:




Die solar paneel het mos omtrent n maand op die grond gestaan ... so tussen die Kaapse reen en ander projekte deur net nie tyd gehad om dit op die dak te sit nie. Saterdag oggend sit ons die paneel op, maar drein eers die battery lekker om te TOETS wat die maksiumum winter krag lewering is ...

100W paneel behoort so 7A te lewer onder optimale toestande. 20 Junie, met skoon lug en lekker son was dit meestal rondom 3A !! Vir n kort tydjie by 4A gedraai - dit is met n paneel wat PLAT lê op n 3 grade dak.

GELUKKIG sit ek toe laat middag die 220V laaier aan !!! 18:45 besluit daai "eskom lot" dis tyd vir load shedding. Nou ja, ons ligte werk. Inverter werk en ek kan my moevie klaar kyk.

Nou weet ek mos ook die PV stelsel is nie groot genoeg om al die krag terug te sit nie, so sit ek die 220V laaier aan en Sondag oggend is die battery lekker VOL. ..... en dis toe wat ek sien dat die PWM eenheid verdomp aanhou en aanhou laai !! selfs teen 15V op die battery hou dit aan om 1A in die battery in te druk !!!!

Moet erken, met die ander goedkoop PWM eenheid wat afsit op 13,9V het ek regtig nie dit verwag nie ....



Toe maar gery en gaan kyk wat ons mense op die rak het .....


die prys klink ook so bietjie duits .... maar n swak laaier GAAN maak dat ek gou weer nog n battery koop .....


mens kan geld spaar op baie goed. Maar kyk MOOI na jou batterye !!!!!! anders gaan dit jou lelik geld kos ....

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ChrisF
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Mon Jun 22, 2015 6:36 pm

KOBUSL wrote:Baie groot waarhede in Chris se les in Controllers 101. Al staan daar MPPT op die controller, en dis 'n Chinese vertaling, verf en plakkers is goedkoop. As daardie oukies se rook eers uitgekom het , kry jy dit nooit weer terug nie. Bly by name wat effens Duits klink.

Ons vra Chris ook mooi om die sketse van hoe om batterye en banke batterye te laai, op te sit. Baie van ons het al met ( 'n tweede ) pap battery gesit : :oops: :oops:
Kobus sketse vir die batterye in ons 4x4's, of praat ons nou van sketse vir die stelsels in ons huise ?


Ek moet nou eers bietjie met fotos speel .... sal later begin skets ....

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Mon Jun 22, 2015 9:43 pm

ChrisF wrote:
KOBUSL wrote:Baie groot waarhede in Chris se les in Controllers 101. Al staan daar MPPT op die controller, en dis 'n Chinese vertaling, verf en plakkers is goedkoop. As daardie oukies se rook eers uitgekom het , kry jy dit nooit weer terug nie. Bly by name wat effens Duits klink.

Ons vra Chris ook mooi om die sketse van hoe om batterye en banke batterye te laai, op te sit. Baie van ons het al met ( 'n tweede ) pap battery gesit : :oops: :oops:
Kobus sketse vir die batterye in ons 4x4's, of praat ons nou van sketse vir die stelsels in ons huise ?


Ek moet nou eers bietjie met fotos speel .... sal later begin skets ....
Die stelsels in die huise. As jy bv 4 x 12v batterye in parallel moet laai, of 2 x 24 v banke moet laai. Waar koppel jy die laaier en van waar trek jy die krag ? Die vraag is onnosel, maar as jy met soveel positiewe en soveel negatiewe in die hand sit, kan jy die "voorste" batterye vol gelaai he, dan sukkel die agterste klomp nog. Maw, al jou batterye is nooit vol gelaai nie. Hoop dit klink reg, want die goed word nie in praktyk vol soos damme wat gekoppel is nie en van een kant gevul word nie.
Word te vinnig oud en te stadig wys.

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Mon Jun 22, 2015 10:01 pm

Goeie Post soos altyd Chris

Net jammer daai Victron produkte is so duur. Maar hy kry waar voor jy betaal .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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ChrisF
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:23 am

Jaws wrote:Goeie Post soos altyd Chris

Net jammer daai Victron produkte is so duur. Maar hy kry waar voor jy betaal .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Herman as ek nou voor die spieel kan staan en myself hard aanspreek ... :surrender:

Goed-koop koop is DUUR koop ! :silent:


Ek sit nou met n R700 cheapy wat net drom toe kan gaan .....



DIT is hoekom ek die stories plaas - sodat ons vriende hier nie weer dieselfde skoolgeld hoef te betaal nie.


As ek nie Sondag gesien het dat daai ander laaier oorlaai nie het ek oor n paar weke of maande die Victron se prys betaal vir n nuwe battery, EN dan moes ek ook nog n behoorlike laaier koop.




IN SHORT : PLEASE monitor your solar regulator and check what happens when the battery is "full", ie when it reach 14,5V ....

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Tue Jun 23, 2015 10:36 am

KOBUSL wrote:Die stelsels in die huise. As jy bv 4 x 12v batterye in parallel moet laai, of 2 x 24 v banke moet laai. Waar koppel jy die laaier en van waar trek jy die krag ? Die vraag is onnosel, maar as jy met soveel positiewe en soveel negatiewe in die hand sit, kan jy die "voorste" batterye vol gelaai he, dan sukkel die agterste klomp nog. Maw, al jou batterye is nooit vol gelaai nie. Hoop dit klink reg, want die goed word nie in praktyk vol soos damme wat gekoppel is nie en van een kant gevul word nie.
Kobus ja die vraag klink bietjie oppervlakkig. En ek het altyd gedink dis maar net "serie" of "parallel" ..... Toe ek die MicroCare kurses bygewoon het was ek baie verbaas om te hoor daar is meer aan die storie .... nog meer verbaas om te sien n paar ou hande in die game het ook nie van beter geweet nie ! :blushing:


Nou-ja, bietjie gegoogle en hier is n handige dokument vir die wat meer wil verstaan - http://www.lifelinebatteries.com/manual.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
battery connection.JPG
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SERIES - sou jy twee 12V batterye in serie koppel verskaf dit n 24V battery bank. MAAR die A.h kapasiteit is steeds dieselfde (onthou jy gaan die helte minder ammps gebruik omdat die volts dubble is..)
Series.JPG
Series.JPG (5.6 KiB) Viewed 2261 times
PARALLEL - sou jy twee 12V batterye in parallel koppel verskaf dit steeds 12V, maar nou het jy dubbel die A.h kapasiteit.
parallel.JPG
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Terug na Kobus se vraag - HOE koppel mens daai twee batterye ??

Vir jare het ons dit so gekoppel -
P 1.JPG
P 1.JPG (6.2 KiB) Viewed 2261 times
Die probleem hiermee is dat die eerste battery VOL laai en dan is die tweede battery slegs 99% vol .... met die volgende laai slag laai die tweede batery slegs 99% van die vorige 99% ..... n absolute bose kringloop en die tweede battery raak n "swak sel" wat nie sy deel van die werk kan doen nie. Nou werk die eerste battery te hard en as jy weer kyk is albei "pad op" ....


Die wit jasse kyk toe die storie en besef dat die beter is om die stelsel SO te koppel -
P 2.JPG
P 2.JPG (6.5 KiB) Viewed 2261 times
Deur die twee koppelinge "oor kruis" te doen laai altwee batterye dieselfde. :)

Loer gerus na die boek vir meer inligting oor groter battery banke en hoe om die te koppel vir beste werk verigting, EN lang lewe.


En ou praat jy met verskillende mense in die industrie en dan kry jy nog meer verwarrende terugvoer !!!


Die groot PV manne verkies SERIES stelsels. Vir n tipiese huis sal hulle 24 van 2V selle in serie koppel vir n 48V bank. Elke sel het dan n kapasiteit in die orde van 900A.h !! DIE selle kos tussen R 4 000 en R 22 000 PER SEL !!

Dan is daar weer ander manne wat weer parallelle banke verkies ....

duidelik baie meer aan die onderwerp as wat ons DIY manne gou sal verstaan.
Last edited by Mud Dog on Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:12 am

A good regulator seems expensive but you have to look at the whole picture.

As Chris has much more knowledge than me I think I must give him 5 different controllers and chargers to test and do a proper write up.

George and I once tested the different charge controllers and the difference in output of the different controllers. The difference between a cheapy and the expensive ones are so big that a cheapy can easily cost you an extra solar panel to get the same output as an expensive charge controller. Or put the other way around, you might get the same output from a good controller with half the number of panels by just using a proper controller.

In our test the DC to DC charger by HCDP actually came out tops, but we never published the results because our electrical knowledge are not as good as Chris' and we were not sure if we did it in the correct way.

By the way the Victron products are on the web site, see
http://www.4x4direct.co.za/index.php?ma ... rd=victron" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 1:58 pm

I must have got lucky.

I have 4 x 20A 'cheapy' Chinese PWM controllers (maybe not as good as MPPT, but they work for me). Each one handles 2 x 80W panels (parallel) and 2 x 102AH batteries (parallel). I have checked them often and compared them against each other - the comparisons are always identical on the float voltage, so there is no difference in the values of the individual controllers.

What I liked about them is that you can set things like low voltage load cut off (low voltage battery protection), low voltage load reconnection, float charge, 12V or 24V system (or just leave it on "auto detect"), they have load overload disconnection and you can set the load output times or let it operate like a day / night switch (load comes on as soon as there is no voltage from the panels (when it gets dark) and cuts off the load when there is voltage from the panels again (when it gets light). Also has a battery temp protection and reduces / cuts off charging according to high battery temperature. They have a nice multifunction LCD display that's easy to read and when no particular mode or setting is being used the displays automatically alternate between PV voltage / battery temp / battery voltage and load amps with 3 sec intervals.

The batteries are all fully re-charged by midday or thereabouts and a voltmeter shows them all at 13.8V.
I paid R450 ea (discounted from R500 because I bought 4).

Like I said, maybe I was just lucky, but either way I'm impressed with these little units.
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:50 pm

Can you post a picture please Andy
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:44 pm

Dis die battery-laai sketse wat ek van praat Chris. Die mense sal luister na jou kundigheid, ek het geleer met knalle en rook en geluk.
Dankie. :thumbup: :idea:
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Tue Jun 23, 2015 6:02 pm

Andy lets not forget, even the HCDP units are not MPPT.


There ARE quality PWM units ! :)




Pieter testing these are not that difficult - BUT doing repeatable tests so that one can with confidence compare one to the other ... now that is a challenge of note !!


remember every single day has different cloud cover and ambient conditions ... so the available power is different each day.

Now add to this that the loading current IS a function of the state of charge of the battery and it becomes very difficult to control all parameters ....



having done a few tests with the solar panels and Ctek in my Hilux I started chasing my own tail with the exact same system !! :slap: :tongue: You truly need to match up many variables before commenting on the results of of these experiments ..... imagine my confusion the first time my tests show the Ctek is REDUCING the charging current as the sun reaches midday .... :surrender: :siffler: Battery went past the 75% SOC and the Ctek backed off the charging current. :cooldude: :lmao: :slap:

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Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:43 am

pietpetoors wrote:Can you post a picture please Andy
Looks like they are even cheaper on line ...... http://www.solarpanelenergy.co.za/p/718 ... controller" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
20A 1224Volt Ecco solar Charge controller.jpg
20A 1224Volt Ecco solar Charge controller.jpg (72.06 KiB) Viewed 2219 times


20A PWM SOLAR CHARGE CONTROLLERS
Ideal for off grid solar system up to:
12 Volt 240 Watt solar panels
24 Volt 480 Watt solar panels

The 20A PWM Solar controller is for off-grid solar systems and control the charging and discharging of the battery. The intelligent charging process has been optimized for long battery life and improved system performance

Major functions
Automatic identification system voltage, 12 volts/24 volts.
* Humanized LCD displaying and double button operation of man-machine interface.
* High efficiency intelligent PWM 3stage charging.
* The load control mode can be selected; the timer function can be reset for street light at night.
* Reliable over voltage protection: short circuit protection, over load protection, overcharge protection, over-discharge protection
* Accurate temperatuur compensation, correcting the charging and discharging voltage automatically, improving the battery lifetime
* Roundly reverse connected protection
* Solar panels, battery, solar charge controller positive poles are all connected together, adopting negative MOSFET in series control circuit.

Size: 168 x 92 x 41.5mm
Net weight: 320g
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Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:39 am

Thanx
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