Hydrogen from water

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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Astrix »

Hi to All :D

I am glad to find a forum with less skeptic’s and persons that do not know the technology but have a lot to say against it :)

Let me first introduce myself.

I’m from Pretoria and have researched and experimented with hydroxy for the past 11 months or so to try and save on the fuel bill. Unfortunately I had to settle for a Ford v6 4x4 instead of the Toyota Hilux 4 X 4 D/Cab , I always wanted. :mrgreen:

Fortunately I know a bit on hydroxy, and this is what it’s about.
It is much easier to navigate a obstacle, than to Google to the best hydroxy sites.
Too much diss information and half truths. :x

Hydroxy works, but there are lots of things to take into account
The efficiency of the hydroxy generator, quality and quantity of the gas produced , where to feed it in to the system and so on…..
Every engine is different ,in some way. One may be more efficient than the next one of the production line , and this is only one of the many things that influence the saving you might get on your vehicle
As soon as I find out how to post links, I will share some better sites
I’m on a few forums where hydroxy/HHO/Browns gas research and development is the main aim , and the general public needs to be educated

You will always find someone that sees the opportunity to make a buck or two, and these guys do more damage to the technology than good :evil:

My 2.3 Isuzu ’88 Petrol and 3.4 l Ford Courier D/cab 4x4 ’98 both use hydroxy as supplements and at worst save me 70 km per tank and better at 180 km per tank

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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Irishman »

Welcome ASTRIX, Your post hits the nail on the head, well spoken. I hope you join in on this subject. I have now three gasifiers in my system. One goes just after the air filter, one into the vacuum pipe from the tappet cover, and one directly into the carb. With two I got an improvement of 38 per cent in consumption. I have yet to run a test with all three running. We have been experimenting with various electrolytes, from the standard baking powder, which makes sediment, at the bottom of the jar, tried vinegar, bit corrosive, now we are on another mixture, which dosen't make sediment. You have no doubt read our input on this subject, and your views would be very welcome.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by CasKru »

Astrix wrote: As soon as I find out how to post links, I will share some better sites


Astrix
Welcome Riaan. Hope you enjoy it here and we can learn from each other.

If you want to post a link, paste the link, select the text you just paste and click the URL button above the editing window. If you don't get it right, just paste the URL and one of the modurators will fix the link and then you will be able to see how it's done by editing your post.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Astrix »

Thanks Ron :D
I’ve been reading more in the past 11 months, than my 40 years before. :lol:
It is a very interesting subject that can get some people hot under the collar, that’s why I wear t-shirts. :twisted:
Your results looks impressive and got you on track. I hope you didn’t spend to much on e books, because in open source most/all info is free .
I also started with the glass jar and ss wire (1.8 welding wire) and progressed to 316 SS Tube.
A friend of mine bought the 6 bottle ##### and couldn’t believe that one of my smaller experiments got more gas than his 6 combined
I got gas production of 60 – 200 ml/min with one bottle. The drawback is that they get to hot because of current leakage thru the water and the production decrease.
A sealed cell on the other hand have little to no current leakage and is more efficient, ja and more expensive.
I am currently using ±800 ml/min of the 2,5 liters/min available . The best I’ve got so far is a increase from 5.13 km/l – 7.79 ( 188.6 km;24.19L ; 84.2 km/h avg)
My hydroxy is going straight to the carb with a heavy duty bubbler inline,I prefer caustic soda

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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Astrix »

Thanks Cassie

:ugeek: Lets try this.
Hope that these are more informative

http://www.free-energy-info.com
ed: fixed above link... select chapter 10 for pdf version or use this link for HTML version http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chapt10.html
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/
http://waterfuelforall.com/forum/index.php

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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Irishman »

Thanks Riaan for those links. One thing we have discussed is how to measure the output from the gasifier. I see you mention the amount of gas produced by your unit. How do you do it.?
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Astrix »

Thanks for the fix :D:

Hi Ron

Well there is 2 cheap ways.

Savety first : do it outside away from sparks or open flames and discard the gas u caught in a safe manner
Don’t want to read about you in the papers :cry:

1 – take a 20 l bucket filled with water, and a 2 L soda bottle.
Take the 2 liter bottle and measure 1 liter of water into it and mark the bottle.
You can also mark it at say 200,400,600,800 ml if you don’t want to hold the bottle for 10 min to get to 1 liter
Now put the bottle in a upside down position in the filled bucket, just make sure that all the air is out of the bottle
so it’s filled with water.

Put your gasifier’s(generator) outlet pipe in the bottle and switch it on.
Use a stopwatch to check how fast/slow it take’s to displace the water with hydroxy.
You just need to balance the bottle to keep it level.
Say it takes 50 sec to produce 400ml - 400/50*60 = 480 ml/min

The 2 nd way is a bit more cumbersome, will post it later when I have more time.
Have to run
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by CasKru »

Astrix wrote:Thanks for the fix :D:
Pleasure Riaan.... thanks for those cool sites.... :) I especially like the top one :)
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Astrix »

Glad to share
:D
This mite give you a glimpse of how much is out there if you can only find it, took me about 2 months to find it from another site.

Don’t read to much, your lawn might overgrow. :twisted:

My thread is on the bottom site under project pages

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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Astrix »

Why so Quiet, are ya reading to much? :lol:

Ron

The 2 nd gas measuring apparatus goes like this.
You need two plastic bottles of 1.5 liters or more. @#%$ :twisted:

I tried to write it but got twisted in translation, so here is a link :oops:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s0FGGDJC1d8

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Hydrogen from water

Post by Irishman »

In the latest SA 4X4 Mag, on page 108 is another guy who is getting 30 - 35 percent improvement in consumption.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Tinman »

hey
a friend of mine with a diesel datto ute has gone from 8ks/pl to 12ks/pl
i will be converting mine soon once i have fitted the new carby, and i plan on making it even better than his.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Dadz Toy BFI »

Irishman wrote:In the latest SA 4X4 Mag, on page 108 is another guy who is getting 30 - 35 percent improvement in consumption.
Ron.
nie, nie, Ron :o:

Jump onto that Hydrogen from Sea Water Technology :idea: :Geek:

You can run a "Raw Material Supply Pipeline" down your back garden :D: :idea: :wink:
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Mud Dog »

Hi, I,ve been absent from this forum for years it seems, anyway the last time I was about, the guys were just starting to discuss the huydrgen from water thing. I had at that time already done extensive research and constructed my own converterBeing apprehensive about possible damage to the motor I have never fitted it.
Is there anyone out there with a conversion fitted that has used it for 20 000 Km's or more? How has the motor stood up? I would imagine that it burns a lot hotter and spark plugs might be a good indicator of this. Particularly the errosion of the negative electrode (the loop, not the pin).
I'd be interested to hear any positive / negative feed back.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by CasKru »

Andy, I might be mistaken by I believe the engine actually runs a little colder than usual.. m2cw.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Irishman »

Andy, I have done 2000k's since fitting my gas system, and my 4Y is running like a sewing machine.
I took it for a roadworthy yesterday, and the testing officer, who happens to be a Hilux fundi was amazed at the power, when he took it for a test drive.
My engine has just put 260000km on the clock
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by dalkill »

no that the backfiring is sorted, I'm ready to join in the poineering spirit
Can anyone tell me where I can buy some of them stainless steel wire?
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by CasKru »

I bought mine at builders warehouse in die electric fencing department :thumbup:
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Irishman »

Cassie, that S/S wire you bought, was it braided wire or normal 1.6mm. I have been trying for ages to find some, and the only people who us it are aircraft maintainance firms, and they import it from the states direct.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by CasKru »

Ron... If I'm not mistaken it is braded....I can take a picture tonight and post it if you like?
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Irishman »

Hi Cassie, my first gasifier had braided wire, but it is a bastard to get it wound round the tower, it keeps springing straight again, plus it is full of oil picked up in the manufacturing. I had to flush out the electrolyte a couple of times before it cleared up.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by CasKru »

I'm working on another design regarding the winding of the wire so it is more secure which will stop that problem. I will pre tread the roll in petrol / Spirits / thinners before using it so I can get the oily substance of before starting the work :)
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Irishman »

Keep us in the picture Cassie with the winding story
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by CasKru »

And what a winding story it is :)

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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by BenHur »

Irishman wrote:Keep us in the picture Cassie
Cassie after Ron explicitly asked you, I still don't see him in the picture :confused:
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Mud Dog »

P.S.

I see some posts about the electrode wire. Yes, it has to be stainless and I'll tell you what I did, which worked pretty well on testing. Take the stainless steel rib out of a set of old wiper blades, preferably ones longer than 18 inches, and although flat, it wraps around a piece of pipe in a spiral quite neatly. I toyed with different configurations and by making one electrode a tighter winding than the other, I was able to put one inside of the other, saving space and therefore allowing me to double up with two sets of electrodes in the bottle.
I'm going to try and post a pic of a spare set that I have lying here, so you can get the idea.

Hope it helps you.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Mud Dog »

What are you guys using for electrolyte? I used a heaped teasoon of baking soda to a litre of water, but I'm thing that there must be something better and made even less corrosive.
Any Ideas?
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Irishman »

Hi Andy, I have sent you a PM regarding the electrolyte, as it is a closely guarded secret :think:
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Mud Dog »

Thanks again Ron for the electolyte idea, much appreciated. I'm interested to hear what you guys think about my idea for electrodes. I made then to fit inside and over a piece of perforated PVC conduit (seperator). Do you think they're too small? Remember I am doubling up with two sets inside the bottle.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Mud Dog »

Hi Ron .... I sent you another PM
Andy.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by ecotech »

nearly blew up the kitchen today.....

was experimenting with this whole hydrogen concept and bang.

i nearly sh@t myself and after a smokebreak i started again and got respect for this setup...

i am using stainless rods (8 joined together) and my oh my it boils......

now i just need to figure out how to store the hydro cos i hav no idea how to but it gooi`s a lekker flame on the other side....
loop maar met my voete!!!!!!!!!!
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Mud Dog »

Storage is far too complicated if you want to make it safe, cos then it would have to be produced inside a large pressure vessel with a pressure cutoff switch to the electrodes. The vessel would also require easy access for electrolyte / electrode maintenance. Then you still have to find a large, safe space for it.

Just feed the HHO production directly to your air intake between the air filter and carb, as close to the carb as possible. In the case of FI, feed it in just before the airflow meter. Then you only need to adjust idle settings. It stands to reason that whilst HHO production rate is static, engine demand varies with RPM, so at idle the ratio between petrol and HHO consumption increases on the HHO side. Thus more power at idle / low RPM than before.

I'd be interested in seeing a pic of your "Bubbler".
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Mud Dog »

P.S.

I don't know if I need to tell you this, probably not, but rather preech to the converted in this case for safety reasons. Be sure to install a relay in the power supply of the gasifier that is controlled via your ingition switch or alternator so that gas is only being produced while the motor is running.

And hey, don't forget those pics! 8 )
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Bfreesani »

I have not really been following the threads covering this topic for a while, and would just like to know if anyone has got anything working on a diesel yet. A couple of months ago I was about to start and seemed to be the only person with a diesel trying it out. But my "bubbler" was to small and amps were to high and I saw no chance to get it working while driving. Then had some problems at work and the project got shelved.
Later....
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by ecotech »

elo mud.

well i am still busy perfecting me bubbler as you call it. mine are made up of pvc pipe and stainless steel electrodes. the electrode is actually a 10cm stainless m6 bolt with about 30 stainless washers on it. they are spaced big (30mm diameter) and small (10mm diameter) as the cathode and a thin yet flexable enough stainless plate covering the inside wall of the pvc pipe as the anode....

i dont know if you watched the video clip on youtube but mine is made on the same principal as that one except that i made mine a bit bigger. its shaped in the for of a J. the bottom loop is where the cathode and anode is located and then a 90 degree bend up to release the HHO...

water can be fed from the top and drained from the bottom via ball valves. the top ball valve also works as the feed hose for the hydrogen to go were it need to go...out cause if you keep the valve open the gas doesnt build up eneough to give you the constant feed of hydro but with the tape semi closed it build pressure and gives a constant high pressured stream directly into the engine. (well not my hilux, its a gocart motor and yeeezzzzz it goes.....)

the only thing is keep your eye on the pressure cause if you dont its gone go BANG
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Mud Dog »

David, there is absolutely no reason why it should not work with diesel. The principle remains exactly the same. Web sites dealing with this technology make enough references to this.

Give it a go, what have you got to loose, (other than the number of visits to a fuel station).

Good luck.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Mud Dog »

Hi Martin, good to hear that you are already having some measure of success in your go-kart. Time for evolution, and to create the "Lux" model.

I have'nt seen the youtube clip but would like to if you still have the link, and I'd really like to see a pic or two of your setup .... post the pics, man! :twisted:

I'm also not sure why you are trying to get a pressurised system, storage of HHO creates a whole new set of hassles, just let it flow as it's produced. One other thing, I mentioned the need for a relay switch but omitted an equally important component and that's an inline fuse on the 12v supply cable. (Just in case there is a mishap and your electrodes come into contact wth each other).

..... and HEY! ..... we wanna see them pics! :D
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Bfreesani »

Thanks Mud for the encouragement. I have been doing some calculations and think I need about 4 cell system to supply my 2.7 with enough HHO to make it worthwhile.

My BIG concern is the same I had with LPG on a diesel, and that is the replacing of to much diesel fuel and hence the robbing of the lubrication for the engine to continue surviving. My solution was to be a variable activated system by means of something like the throttle cable or maybe a pressure pickup from the turbo boost that advances or switches more bubblers on as the pressure increases. This seams the best and probably easiest way as the diesel supply does get affected by the pressure of the turbo by means of an activator into the diesel pump.

My proposal was to install 3 pressure sensors set to switch devices on at 0.1, 0.3 and 0.5 with the 1st device activated as soon as the charge light of the alternator switches off.

I could be over complicating the process and the complication of it is keeping me from tackling it. My other big problem is space for the units. My experiments started with a small jam jar with 4mm rod electrodes bent into spirals. But before I wiped my eyes out, I was drawing 8 amps on just one bubbler and I was not impressed with my output. Although not much, it did blow up quiet impressively :o: ..

On idle when introducing it to the engine via the same pipe that accepts your tappet cover breather, my EGT went up by 4 degrees with in about 30 seconds and returned after about 1 minute after switch off. The idling revs did not change or did I get a change of "sound" in the engine that other people have reported.

Another concern for the 4x4 guys (well me anyway) is the stability of the contents of the bubblers on big angles and the possibility of the water/mix being sucked into the system if it gets too close to the feed pipe.

OK enough babbling from me now... I have so many projects that keep me from this one, but when I see the others getting some type of success, I get all exited and want to run out and get mine working, then realise I need the wiring and switches and triggers and pipes. Will see in December if we get quiet enough if I can do some work on this project again. I would love to see the guys faces when we drive convoy to the Kalahari in March when they see my fuel consumption with this system running :thumbup:
Later....
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by ecotech »

hi hillbilly.

keep 1 thing in mind. gasoline or petrol burning enigens have a less of of a lubricant th diesel. diesel conist of a oil base and therefore the differance. hho is a gas and is far lighter then oxygen and therefore the differance in ideling speed as muddog explained. hho will do no harm to a far as i know but you will not be able to run the lux only on hho unless you changed the oil to that of a petrol engine. diesel oils are syntetic and petrol oils not. remember combustion is done by mixing fuel and oxygen together and igniting it. hho is lighter then oxygen and more flamable then oxygen and gives more power.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Bfreesani »

This thread has me going again and I pulled the plans I started a while back and did some changes. This was the best way I could see me making it compact enough to fit behind the bumper where I actually do have the best space available and the cooling I think could help, although there should be no heat :think:

Construction with 75mm water pipe with screw caps for the electrode terminators. Each of the pipes will be activated in sequence by a pressure switch on the boost side of the turbo which is the closest reflection of the amount of diesel being injected into the motor. All the tubes would share water supply.
HHO Gen 1.JPG
Still wish I could post these things full size :problem:


The flash back arrestor would be the same pipe with screw end caps with an upside down funnel fitted to the top to prevent splashing into the outlet to the engine.

I was hoping for about a 4-6 Amp maximum draw per coil as this would give me a max of 24 amps at full throttle which really does not happen too much or for long periods of time and with the 70 Ah battery on the vehicle should work cool.

DO I need to have an air supply into the cell unit or can it be sealed with just an outlet. I heard that if your remove the HHO from the cell or replace it with "clean" air, it encourages production (not sure if this is true). But does leave me with the idea to boost the cell from behind with clear air from the intake to push the produced HHO out. Can be done fairly easy by taking pipe from the boost side of the turbo and feed the HHO into the system just before the Turbo. The difference in air pressure increases as the turbo spins up. A check valve would need to be installed to stop the the draw in of the water when the turbo is not boosting as you do have a slight "vacuum" created by the drag of the air filter on the intake.

I hope to get some comments and criticism now please as this should bring up some "problems" I may have missed.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Bfreesani »

Hi Ecotech

I realise the conservative application of the HHO compared to a petrol engine due to the lack of lubrication and understand that I will never be able to achieve the usage that is possible in a petrol engine. You should in theory be able to replace 100% of your fuel in a petrol engine with HHO.

Oh and mine is not a lux :wink: its a Nissan 2.7TD, just love talking about this subject on this forum as it has the lowest count of skeptics and no people that go all out to discredit the idea


The advantage of HHO in a diesel (especially our old generation motors) is that our vehicles are very inefficient compared to the new generation motors (common rail and computer controlled) Now the refinement is what gives them all the power, but makes them run very lean. I believe my motor leaves something like 60% of the diesel unburned, and is emitted in the form of smoke, the new diesels are much better at something like 20% (please don't quote me on these figures). The advantage is that the HHO increases the % of diesel actually burned or used because of the enhanced combustion that happens now. This has some positive results
1) the smoking is less as there is less diesel left to be expelled as waste
2) power goes up as you are effectively burning more diesel that is converted to power (not smoke)
3) the combustion and power is produced over a much shorter period of time in the cylinder (3 times faster)
4) the shorter combustion period is more complete, the power is up and hence the foot can be lifted dropping diesel supply.
5) EGT is lower.
6) Exhaust gas is much cleaner than without HHO

Diesel is also very easy to introduce HHO to. The older machines don't check oxygen levels and the only intelligence is the nut behind the steering wheel.

Diesel combustion timing is governed by the diesel fuel reaching certain criteria in the cylinder head and that's it. You can't really change the ignition timing unless you can alter the Cekan (spelling) level of the diesel.

Petrol engines have the disadvantage in that as an additive, the timing needs to be adjusted to compensate for the amount of HHO in the cylinder head. If you keep the timing at say 8-10deg before TDC, your combustion takes place so fast that most the power production has actually taken place before the piston even reaches TDC. You need to retard your timing to at least TDC with some guys saying that best power is found at up to 5 degrees after TDC..

I suppose the big problem is that no one has conclusive test results to support all these claims and hence the skeptics. It's just a bunch of people like us "trying" this all out, and then on the other side, a bunch of guys taking advantage of a very new technology and ripping people off.

M2cw
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Mud Dog »

Hi again.
The sucking up of electrolyte as it splashes about on rough roads / uneven terrain also had me a little concerned. What I have considered is this;

With a sealed "bubbler" the outflow of HHO is small, only what is being produced, so not much would be likely to be sucked up with a 6mm ID pipe.

This likelyhood can be further decreased by extending the takeoff pipe by about 20mm past the lid into the "bubbler" and perforating that extension.

The 'head space' above the electrolyte should be adequate and not 'strangled'. About 70mm or more.

Then to be sure, just in case, the takeoff can be passed through a small accumulator bottle (I had in mind something the size of a plastic peanut butter bottle). Here I would make the inflow pipe long and the outflow pipe very short (internally).

I figure that anything passing through to the engine thereafter would be minimal if not nil. I also wondered about condensation, if in fact it will occur, in the feedpipe length to the carb, which should be kept as short as possible anyway. I think this would be minimal and insignificant.

So, with the weekend coming up again, I will be trying to get things set up and will post some pics once I am there.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Mud Dog »

Oh, David, when you refer to EGT, I assume you're talking about exhaust gas temp. A rise in this should not be cause for concern, but more in indicator that you are burning fuel more efficiently.
Correct me if you think my interpretation is wrong.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Bfreesani »

I seem to get the impression that at idle the EGT went up, but once running at higher rpm, the egt was lower than normal. I think it is at higher rpm that you start seeing the benefit of the faster duration of ignition/combustion time.

I compare it to moving your hand over/through a flame over a period of lets say 9 seconds, your hand is in the flame, and hence hotter than when your hand goes through the flame in a third of that time, 3 seconds. Although the combustion is more "violent" the duration is significantly shorter. Also the cutback of the diesel supply due to additional power should also assist in the drop in EGT. That is of course of you drive it in a civilized fashion :roll:

No comments on my design?
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by ecotech »

hillbilly,

i have come across your setup before and yes there is no problem with the principal but i have one question to you. what is the size of your cathode and anode and what is the amount of H2O in the unit. the reason for this is you need to make the electrolises as violent as posible with your setup and the pressure rom the 4 bubblers as mad dog said needs to be reulated.

oh and on you last posting regarding the unit not suppozed to get hot. it does. and the reason being that the hydrolises taking place causes the unit to warm up and condenses in the bubbler. what i have done is to lay my electrodes flat and the H2O upright. (pic will follow once i am happy) therefore i can keep the HHO going out of the unit in the correct flow as well as get enough H build up before its released into the system.

from the bubbler its pushed trought the anit pasback stystem which then actually cools and purifies the H causing it to then become what you know as HHO. the bennefits of HHO to any engine is the cooler working temp as the HHO burns red hot but will not burn the skin. the efect of the burn is once again a release of H2O....

hope my inputs help....
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Mud Dog »

David,
I'm not sure why you have 4 cells sharing electolyte. My assumption is that you are going to have some cells working better than others due to proximity to each other and proximity to connection points. Personally I would have made it as seperate stand alone units. I am also not sure that you would need a flashback arrestor .... I would imagine that backfires through the carb are rare except when one has fitted a "funny" camshaft and combustion escapes past a high lifting valve.

Yours and Martin's basic concept is very similar to mine except that I'm keeping the 2nd bottle small and dry. Martin, you should fit a seperator sleeve between your electrodes, lest they touch with bumping and jarring, and I would allow more electrolyte space between them and the outer casing .... more effective surface area and easier gasflow that is being produced. Additionally, more space around the electrodes reduces heat build up, don't you think? It would allow for better electrolyte circulation as well.
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by CasKru »

ecotech wrote:hillbilly,

i have come across your setup before and yes there is no problem with the principal but i have one question to you. what is the size of your cathode and anode and what is the amount of H2O in the unit. the reason for this is you need to make the electrolises as violent as posible with your setup and the pressure rom the 4 bubblers as mad dog said needs to be reulated.

oh and on you last posting regarding the unit not suppozed to get hot. it does. and the reason being that the hydrolises taking place causes the unit to warm up and condenses in the bubbler. what i have done is to lay my electrodes flat and the H2O upright. (pic will follow once i am happy) therefore i can keep the HHO going out of the unit in the correct flow as well as get enough H build up before its released into the system.

from the bubbler its pushed trought the anit pasback stystem which then actually cools and purifies the H causing it to then become what you know as HHO. the bennefits of HHO to any engine is the cooler working temp as the HHO burns red hot but will not burn the skin. the efect of the burn is once again a release of H2O....

hope my inputs help....
Martin, jy moet net in gedagte hou. As jou system onder pressure is en jy het die tipe volume gas wat jy in jou prentjie aantoon en jy het 'n flashback.... KA-FREEKING-BOOM se ek vir jou! :shock:
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by ecotech »

kasie as the the big bang theory you have got. my system has the anti passback which can in no way cause a flashback in to the hydrorizer. the flashback cas only get ( if even ) back into the anti passback system and keep in mind i am working with HHO and not plain H.....there is a differance. H is very unstable and very unpredictable.......look at my countries biggest damn disaster, the Hindenberg.

HHO is more stable and less volitile (spelling) as H and burns cool to the touch......you kan keep your hand infront of a open HHo flame and it will not burn you were as with H it will do...

notice the diff with all our systems? HHO and not H.....
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Bfreesani »

Mud, I have 4 cells so as to create a variable production unit by switching them on in sequence as the engine requires more or less according to load. Unlike a petrol engine that can use very large amounts of HHO and the intake vacuum will control the flow into the engine, a diesel has an open intake. While producing HHO, I can be feeding the engine with HHO without the engine even running :o: . I have to curb production when it is not needed.

If I use separate sealed and independent cells, I need to service them and check them separately giving me four things to service. By sharing the electrolyte, I have only to make the mix once for all four and top up one unit but have the facility to switch four production coils independently and thereby varying my production from one central "source"

To bring my drawing into context, those cylinders are 65 - 75 mm diameter PVC pipes 300mm long, and the coils (original experiment) was done with 4mm rod. Each coil (both poles combined) is made up of around 3 meter of 4mm rod per coil.

I did wonder if you need that flash back water tube or if you could go straight into the engine from the generator. I have no background in chemistry, but if I understand Ecotech, the gas changes from H to HHO only after it as been through the bubbler.

I have seen units feeding directly into the engine and they seem to perform in the same way as through the bubbler. I thought the bubbler was just a flash back prevention device. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have seen people "charging" water with the gas from the generator and even using it as drinking water and claiming medicinal properties. Then I saw guys "charging" the water and just letting the engine draw some air through the water and claiming positive results. I was looking for a good clean source of water for my water injection system that I have planned. The guys often add methanol or alcohol to this water as an additional fuel, I want to see if bubbling "H" through it would make it usable for the injection system.

What does worry me about the bubbler, is that additional volume you add between the generator and the engine that first needs to be filled with gas before the engine gets the product. Much like turbo lag by fitting an inter cooler with 2 meters of pipe that produces so much lag while the turbo first has to compress an additional 5 litres of air before the engine can see the advantage of the system. That by the way is my reason for going water injection instead of inter cooler.
Later....
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by dalkill »

sjoe all this tech talk has fried my brain so early in the morn...

Juts my 2 c worht...

As far as I know, it's not the passing of the gas thru water that produces HHO. HHO is produced in the gasifier.. the passing thru water in the bubbler / flashback arrestor, serves two purposes. To minimise the bang if there is a flashback, which is why the bubbler is normally fitted with a top that can pop off and back on easily. Secondly it cleans the HHO before entering the engine of harmful chemicals.

Ecotech, did you have a bubbler when it went bang. if not then I can imagine the cops came around there, else it should not have been that big. Bit scary, but not being locked up for.
Would love to hear what a bang sound like with bubbler in place.

As far as running the vehicle on HHO only, 'm afraid the maths won't allow it. The amount of energy used to create enough HHO to power an engine completely is more than what the engine needs to turn over - that what the experts say. But they also said you could not see any gain in comsumption figures but Irishman proved them wrong with 38% increase in efficiency. So if you can prove them all wrong, my hats off to you on that one.

I wll be starting on my system soon. Now that the backfires on my lux sorted, I feel more comfortable fitting one. And yes it is a carb vehicle, which had backfires due to faulty coil in dizzy... so I would recommend a bubbler to any system, unless you want to blow off you bonnet... them backfires are nasty, blew hole in my air filter
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Irishman »

Jeez, this subject is sure getting complicated. Could we all stick to the same terminology . The unit is a gasifier, and the bubbler is the little valve for controlling the air into the gasifier. Without air going into the gasifier you won't get HHO out, you will just build up a static vacuum, and no gas will flow.
A couple of other points. I pick up the power from my windscreen wiper motor.No complicated wiring, and you don't have to go through the engine bulkhead ,the wiper motor only get power after the ignition is switched on. I replaced the motor fuse with a 20amp fuse. The gasifiers have an in line 15amp fuse each. On start up I switch on the ignition, wait five seconds, then the engine bursts into life when I fire it up.
Another worry which comes up from time to time is water ingress. The humidity here in the Cape is 85% at the moment so I am already sucking a lot of water into the engine, as for sucking water from the gasifiers, you probably do until the water level settles down, but how much water can flow through a vacuum pipe for a split second which is about 2.5 mm dia. My electrolyte level is about 30mm from the top of the consol jar. That's were it settled its self
As the vacuum varies dependent on throttle position, I run one gasifier into a spot just behind the air filter, one into the intake manifold, and one into the carb. The Nikki carb has lots of spare connection points. I also fitted a vacuum gauge, that probably helps more than anything, because when you see it in the red you automatically lift your foot :thumbup:
We have two threads running on this subject, couldn't the web master put them together?
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by King Rat »

Sorry, there is no difference between HHO and H plus O. There is no such molecule as HHO. Other than than that I'm looking at these treads with a lot of interest :clap:
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by dalkill »

I'm no rocket scientist, but I believe that tha electrolysis process break the bonds between the two H molecules and the one O molecule to give you HHO. So for every molecule of water split 2 gas molecules of H, and one of O is released... So in fact you could be right. It's just H and O, but there is just double the amount of H as O.
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dalkill
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by dalkill »

to the diesel guys wanting to use this, have you considered Biodiesel?
2016 2.4GD6 SR D/C 4x4 (Oct 2022 - current) (Buraaq VI)
2007 d4d 3.0 D/C 4x4 (Mar 2016 - July 2022) (Buraaq V)
2003 Isuzu KB300 D/C 4x4 (May 2015 - Feb 2016) aka Buraaq IV
2000 hilux DC 2.7 4x4 (Jul 2011 - Sep 2012) aka Buraaq III
1999 RXI 20v (Nov 2009 - Jul 2011) aka Quicksilver
1990 hilux DC 2.2 4x4 (Jun 2008 - Jul 2011) aka Buraaq II
1997 corolla 160i GLE (Feb 2007 - Sep 2009) aka Green Goblin
1990 GLI twincam (still my fav rolla) (Oct 2005 - Mar 2007) aka Wit Blitz
Golf GTI 2.0 (temp insanity for 2months) (Jun 2005 - Aug 2005) aka A mistake
1993 hilux SC 2.2 4x4 (April 2003 - Sept 2005) aka Buraaq

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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by ThysdJ »

Irishman wrote:We have two threads running on this subject, couldn't the web master put them together?
Your wish is our command Ron. The 2 threads are merged.
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Bfreesani
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Bfreesani »

dalkill wrote:to the diesel guys wanting to use this, have you considered Biodiesel?
Yip. looked at it and is a nice clean fuel and slightly cheaper. But suppliers are not around every corner. I have to drive over 10 km to get to my closest one that I know of.

Time a fuel to get there offsets the saving by at least half and then I have not worked in wear and tear on the car. If I had the money and the tank to fill up with at least 200 liter, it would be worth it. I also would not fill up at any producer either as some of the guys are putting some dodgy stuff together.

On long trips you now have to find suppliers in places you don't know. The HHO is mobile with you always. You never have to worry about where you are getting your next supply. I personally feel HHO does do a lot better for the environment than bio diesel in the way it decreases the carbon immissions. OK this is a whole new topic, so lets leave it there.

I have also been very lax with my experimentation, but this project end up on the back burner every time something goes wrong. I am also watching this thread with interest :think:
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ecotech
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by ecotech »

King Rat wrote:Sorry, there is no difference between HHO and H plus O. There is no such molecule as HHO. Other than than that I'm looking at these treads with a lot of interest :clap:

ja nee. let me try and explain....

HHO = hydrogynhydroxide
H = hydrogen
O = oxygen

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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by BenHur »

King Rat wrote:Sorry, there is no difference between HHO and H plus O. There is no such molecule as HHO. Other than than that I'm looking at these treads with a lot of interest :clap:
Yes there is no molecule called HHO but there is such a compound.

Very few molecules exist on there own you ill always found them in a compound like water being H2O and Hydrogen Hydroxy being HH0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_compound wrote:A chemical compound is a substance consisting of two or more different elements bonded together in a fixed mass ratio that can be split into simpler substances.


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ecotech
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by ecotech »

i am busy working on a complete diesel lump running on HHO....

i dono what will hapen and if its gona go bang on me but i will give feedback as to if it works or not and how well it works...

i am crossing my fingers on this one....
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Re: Hydrogen from water

Post by Mud Dog »

M2CW,

HHO is also known as Brown's gas and is used among other things for gas welding (probably produced on demand).

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