2.7 vvti or 3.0 d4d??

[Nimeshin]

Hi Guys

Im new to this forum
I am shopping around for a hilux D/C and was wondering which is a better engine to get. the 2.7 vvti or the 3.0 d4d? im looking at the 05 to 07 models
Which one has better fuel consumption and not troublesome and also cheaper to repair?

Thanks

[Rebel 4x4]

Petrol are always heavier on kuice than diesel, but on the + side, petrol engines last longer than common rail diesel engines, less worrying about injectors, 50ppm or 500ppm fuel, diesel pump etc.

Diesels cost much more when comes to servicing and repairing...

[Nimeshin]

interesting... thanks, i always thought diesel engines lasted longer

[yotaman]

The 2.7 in particular is super reliable and its longevity is legendary

[Thabogrobler]

If you go the petrol route you should rather go for the 4.0 V6 - same consumption than the 2.7 but way more power.

In my opinion the 2.7 vvti is a terrible, underpowered motor.

[Nimeshin]

any idea what the fuel consumption is per 100km?

[OOOOMS]

On the 4.0l V6 approx. 6.5 - 7.5km/l on the 3.0 D4D, 9.5 and 10.5km/l

[Nimeshin]

thanks guys

[Sebata]

if you are like me & have a ton of bricks striped to your foot, go for petrol that was the advice i got.

[Nimeshin]

hopefully the petrol price comes down soon

[krazy_kameleon]

to my knowledge the petrol also has a cam chain whereas the diesel uses a cambelt so there will be an expensive cambelt change on the cards for the diesel...

[TJL]

i know the 3.0d4d is a great machine but hard to find and expensive due to demand (talking second hand), is the 2.7 really that bad compared to the d4d?? thinking of upgrading as well due to the need to drive more for work these days, if fuel consumption is out of the pic - how is the 2.7 otherwise?

[OOOOMS]

i know the 3.0d4d is a great machine but hard to find and expensive due to demand (talking second hand), is the 2.7 really that bad compared to the d4d?? thinking of upgrading as well due to the need to drive more for work these days, if fuel consumption is out of the pic - how is the 2.7 otherwise?

Enjin wise very good, not many 4x4 made though if you are looking for one.

[Nimeshin]

I got the 2.7 and its goes well, and engine sounds clean and quite, i only got it for 5 days now so cant really compare fuel consumption at this point. Compared to the d4d, the 2.7 is not as fast... due to a missing turbo the d4d definitely gets 10km / L

[Christian Kuun]

The 2.7 is a very cool motor and is not to be sniffed at....it is super reliable, NOT underpowered and you can beat it with a stick and it wont break. It is a tad heavy on juice though. I loved every minute of owning it.


WRT the 4.0 V6, go and drive it. Enough said. I wouldnt care if it gave me 4km/l because it is guaranteed grin stuff . We get between 6.5 and 8km/l depending who is driving- my wife gets the 8km/l and I just cant help myself.

[Sebata]

I got the 2.7 and its goes well, and engine sounds clean and quite, i only got it for 5 days now so cant really compare fuel consumption at this point. Compared to the d4d, the 2.7 is not as fast... due to a missing turbo the d4d definitely gets 10km / L

the photos will complete the threat????? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Die$eL]

i disagree about servicing costs on the diesel

diesel has no spark plugs so servicing would not be as much as petrol
not sure how much oil the petrol takes on service but the diesel uses 7L!!!

consumption on my diesel i get around 12KM/L. thats driving properly. Driving like an animal i'd get around 9KM/L
Power is Excellent! Long distance driving is such a pleasure!

I'd love the 4L as well but i'd cry each time i accelerate... I have a car for that kind of power and more..

[GravelMaster]

If you go the petrol route you should rather go for the 4.0 V6 - same consumption than the 2.7 but way more power.

In my opinion the 2.7 vvti is a terrible, underpowered motor.

Halo Thabo,
ek sit tans ietwat in dieselfde bootjie. Ek is opsoek na n S\cab 4x4 bakkie. Ek wil amper se enige bakkie. Maar dis n leuen, want eks n toegewyde Toyota fan. Maar ek kry nie n scab 4x4 in n 4.0L V6 nie. Die sterkste petrol enjin is die 2.7. en ek voel ook hyt nie genoeg krag na my smaak nie. nou oorweeg ek allerhande idees om om sterker te maak wil nie turbo gaan ne. doen te veel skade aan sy meganiese betroubaarheid en herverkoop waarde. supercharger te duur. alhoewel ek nie presies weet hoeveel die hele conversion in totaal gaan kos nie. (klink net v my op die oog af te duur soos wat die ouens praat) ek stel nie regtig belang in dioe 3.0d4d nie want ek hom die ander dag gaan toets bestuur en hy het my nie so baie beindruk nie en vuil diesel in moz gaan my hele vakansie en budget spoil en ja, sy dienste is te duur en te gereeld(kanselleer die voordele van sy meer ekonomiese brandstofverbruik uit) so wat nou gemaak?? klink nie vir my asof n chip en freeflo op n 2.7 so groot verskil maak nie. ek kyk na die 1999 tot so 2007 modelle vir my begroting. laaste vraag, party ouens se die 8-port 2.7i in die ou shape is beter as die 4-port 2.7i in die bullnose shape. menende laasgenoemde het meer krag maar n swakker brandstof verbruik? dra jy enige kennis van hierdie Thabo?
groete

[GravelMaster]

Nishan,
sorry my ol' mate but I almost asked you if you have smoked your socks but I won't okay. But how can you say servicing a diesel is cheaper than servicing a petrol just because a diesel doesn't have spark plugs my man???? i mean is this just your common logic or have you verified your facts? I was 2 weeks ago at Cartoria Toyota in Voortrekker street looking for - and opting also for a second hand 2.7VVTi OR a 3.0D4D just like Newbie Nimeshin here. The first thing I enquired about is the costs and regularity by which you have to service your bakkie, depending on which one you buy. This is what Cartoria Toyota quoted me:
(Now please do your calculations ono this to clearly realise that maintaining a diesel is WAAAAAAY more expensive than on a petrol. clearly you dont service your diesel or you if you do you dont pay for it or if you pay for it you have noticed exactly how much it cost or plainly you just havent compared it to a petrol
Cartoria quote for a general service:
- 2,7VVTI = R2,200 and recommended to be serviced every 15,000KM's !!!!
-3.0 D4D = r2,800 and recommended to be serviced every 10,000KM's !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

do the calculations yourself mate...

[ChrisF]

Louis on wich service did they qoute you, a minor or major service ?

the 10 000 km service on my Hilux diesel cost R 839, marginally more than a 15 000 km service on a petrol vehicle.

the 20 000 km service was just over 1k, but cant lay my hand on the invoice now to give the exact figure.


at a GUESS, I would say that a diesel might cost about 1k more over 30 000 km to service - primarily because of the the increased service levels.


BUT, it would make an interesting comparison if you were only buying the parts and servicing it yourself .....



PS - as my petrol car is only used for short trips in town I follow the manufacturers recommendation - service intervals at 10 000 km ......

[ChrisF]

on the 10k service it is basically just the oil and oil filter (supposedly they check a couple of other things)

on the 20k service it is the obove + a polin filter. NO air filter, NO fuel filter (only at 90k).


the air filter costs about R200, and the diesel filter about R150 - so heaven alone knows why they wont replace it - 30 seconds to replace the air filter, less than 10 minutes to replace the diesel filter ....

[Rebel 4x4]

Louis on wich service did they qoute you, a minor or major service ?

the 10 000 km service on my Hilux diesel cost R 839, marginally more than a 15 000 km service on a petrol vehicle.
Still you've had to service the vehicle 5 000km before a petrol.

the 20 000 km service was just over 1k, but cant lay my hand on the invoice now to give the exact figure.
Now you're on the 2nd service with probably another 1k out your pocket.... where you're still on service no. 1 with petrol

at a GUESS, I would say that a diesel might cost about 1k more over 30 000 km to service - primarily because of the the increased service levels. On the 3rd service on the diesel you've defnitaly paid more than 1k after 3 services, where on petrol you are still on service no. 2.

BUT, it would make an interesting comparison if you were only buying the parts and servicing it yourself .....
No diiference if you service it yourself or by dealer, only difference is that you don't pay for labour. Labour does not cost less because you drive a diesel or less if you you drive a petrol.

PS - as my petrol car is only used for short trips in town I follow the manufacturers recommendation - service intervals at 10 000 km ......
And on a diesel, do you now have to service the vehicle on 7 500km? Or is that reccomendation only for petrol vehicles?

[ChrisF]

Thomas I see you are "passionate" about this topic. :)

lets work on an average of R 1500 per service (way more than the actual costs I have encountered thus far).

For 30 000 km:
petrol = TWO services, ie R 3 000
diesel = THREE services, ie R 4 500

so on the face of it the diesel is more expensive to maintain.

but we know it is about "cost of ownership", not just maintenance.


for this same 30 000km a D-4D would realistically average 10,5 km/liter, ie R 32 000 of diesel, at just over R 11 per liter

while the petrol at 6,5 km,l (and we know many are more thirsty than this) would use R 51 000 of petrol

suddenly the service costs are negligable. :)

by the time you have done 60 or 90 000km the difference in purchase costs are also long gone off set, even a set of injectors .....


fact is, it is NOT that clear cut which works out cheaper in the long run - certainly the service intervals are NOT a decider, nor the service costs

[Rebel 4x4]

Thomas I see you are "passionate" about this topic. :) I LOVE diesel, if I had the money to afford one.

lets work on an average of R 1500 per service (way more than the actual costs I have encountered thus far).

For 30 000 km:
petrol = TWO services, ie R 3 000
diesel = THREE services, ie R 4 500

so on the face of it the diesel is more expensive to maintain. You still calucaled diesel and petrol service cost as the same, but it's not, generally a diesel vehicle service cost is 15 - 20% more than petrol, on 120 000km it's nearly doubled due to timing belt replacement, only when you replace the timing belt for the second time (240 000km), you change the petrol's timing chain...

but we know it is about "cost of ownership", not just maintenance.


for this same 30 000km a D-4D would realistically average 10,5 km/liter, ie R 32 000 of diesel, at just over R 11 per liter

while the petrol at 6,5 km,l (and we know many are more thirsty than this) would use R 51 000 of petrol

suddenly the service costs are negligable. :) False, if you buy both vehicles new, 2.7vvt-i DC (R315 700) and 3.0D4D DC (R367 400) - R51700 in price difference, you're theory is shot right then, right there. I can drive 30 550km with my 2.7 and the d4d will still be parked in the garage..... Then we havn't even spoken about service cost or even 1 set of injectors......

by the time you have done 60 or 90 000km the difference in purchase costs are also long gone off set, even a set of injectors .....


fact is, it is NOT that clear cut which works out cheaper in the long run - certainly the service intervals are NOT a decider, nor the service costs

[Nimeshin]

Nice math Chris

it seems like a question of buying fuel OR buying parts and labour
I must admit tho.. the 2.7 is very thirsty..

[GravelMaster]

ja. this is a topic where if you seriously start digging into it, it'll become very interestin and definitely a hot debate amongst diesel vs. petrol heads. But i heavily agree with Chris here. Looking at your capital equity in your vehicle. When you buy them new. There's going to be R50K+ difference in price. But after you have driven it for 5 years and let's stick a 100K km's on it, and you want to resell, you're only gonna get roughly R30K(if that much) MORE for your diesel than for your petrol So again, you lease R20K in your asset. When you go to Moz and you dont have a proper RACOR fuel filter for example which you drain regularly, and you get dirty or watery diesel through your more modern diesel's engine, you will have to replace your injectors.
I was told, now verify me 'cos it might be wrong, but i believe it's not, that your new D4D's have a chip in their injectors. and when you replace oone faulty injector, you actually have to replace all 4!! That cost a ridiculous amount of money. Something like more than R20K if I heard correctly!!
and then i hace to add. it is possible that i was maybe wrongly quoted on the service costs. not in the price but on the model.
i clearly asked for the 2007-ish year models but that service costs could be for the very latest models. but i asked for it on a general service cost. and definitely for the 2,7vvti and the 3.0 d4d.
however, i did this calculation on paper the other day.
it worked out when i buy a decent 2007 model 2.7vvti in comparison to a decent 3.0d4d also a 2007 model.
and i drove each a 100 000km's over 5 years.
and i had to resell them then. taking into account all my running and maintenance costs incl fuel and the difference in price between diesel and petrol and the higher depreciation for higher mileage d4d diesels and everything else accounted for.
and i resell them.
the total amount of money that i'll end up with in my pocket(or out of my pocket) if you take depreciation in account incl the total cost of ownership for having had the diesel or the petrol will end up eventually being almost exactly the same.

and the only difference overall that you would've experienced is the different forms of driving pleasures that each of these vehicles gave you over your 5 years of ownership.

but if you think you save so much of owing a 3.0 d4d in comparison to a 2.7vvti just because of the better consumption of the d4d, you're making a BIG mistake

remember, diesel is more expensive than petrol too, hey..

ag en so the debate goes on....

[ChrisF]

for years petrol was more expensive than diesel, and the maths made more sense. Since the last fuel increase where diesel went UP and petrol came DOWN the story is not that clear cut any more.

AND if you really get into it you have to look at the interest on the extra money to buy the diesel, etc etc ....

with all the variables I doubt there will ever be a clear answer

and then the "small fact" that each has its own unique traits which makes it ideal for different applications ......

[Rebel 4x4]

ja. this is a topic where if you seriously start digging into it, it'll become very interestin and definitely a hot debate amongst diesel vs. petrol heads. But i heavily agree with Chris here. Looking at your capital equity in your vehicle. When you buy them new. There's going to be R50K+ difference in price. But after you have driven it for 5 years and let's stick a 100K km's on it, and you want to resell, you're only gonna get roughly R30K(if that much) MORE for your diesel than for your petrol So again, you lease R20K in your asset. When you go to Moz and you dont have a proper RACOR fuel filter for example which you drain regularly, and you get dirty or watery diesel through your more modern diesel's engine, you will have to replace your injectors.
I was told, now verify me 'cos it might be wrong, but i believe it's not, that your new D4D's have a chip in their injectors. and when you replace oone faulty injector, you actually have to replace all 4!! That cost a ridiculous amount of money. Something like more than R20K if I heard correctly!!
and then i hace to add. it is possible that i was maybe wrongly quoted on the service costs. not in the price but on the model.
i clearly asked for the 2007-ish year models but that service costs could be for the very latest models. but i asked for it on a general service cost. and definitely for the 2,7vvti and the 3.0 d4d.
however, i did this calculation on paper the other day.
it worked out when i buy a decent 2007 model 2.7vvti in comparison to a decent 3.0d4d also a 2007 model.
and i drove each a 100 000km's over 5 years.
and i had to resell them then. taking into account all my running and maintenance costs incl fuel and the difference in price between diesel and petrol and the higher depreciation for higher mileage d4d diesels and everything else accounted for.
and i resell them.
the total amount of money that i'll end up with in my pocket(or out of my pocket) if you take depreciation in account incl the total cost of ownership for having had the diesel or the petrol will end up eventually being almost exactly the same.

and the only difference overall that you would've experienced is the different forms of driving pleasures that each of these vehicles gave you over your 5 years of ownership.

but if you think you save so much of owing a 3.0 d4d in comparison to a 2.7vvti just because of the better consumption of the d4d, you're making a BIG mistake

remember, diesel is more expensive than petrol too, hey..

ag en so the debate goes on....

Even if you do a proper cost analysis for a vehicle second hand, to keep 5 years averaging 25 000km per year, and price difference between diesel and petrol vehicles of R20 000, you'lle still see diesel works out far more expensive. Remember, timing belt replacement for a diesel vehicle happens 3x in 350 000km where petrol is only once at 200 000km..... That's 2x extra for a VERY major service expense + normal service expense compared to petrol. I'ts even worse when buying new, because now the initial R20 000 is now nearly R52 000............ People think that diesel service cost R1 more than petrol service..... You'll see for yourself when owning both petrol and diesel vehicles.

I've done my maths, and decided on the 2.0Tsi Amarok that gets 9.5km avg per litre, that's the same as a Hilux D4D, okay, slightly less. but still R52 000 less + nearly same fuel consumption. If Toyota could get their technology right on their Hilux petrol's to give fuel consumption that close to their diesels, boet, then i'm in......

Excellent topic buy the way..... Would gladly see other peoples comments as well....

[GravelMaster]

Rebel, couldnt agree more here with your last post. Glad to see there's more people who can understand and realise the bigger picture total-cost-of-ownership-issue of diesel vs petrol.

At the end, you've gotta buy what you fancy. what you like. and what gives you a teddy bear in your pants

Diesel aint bad, surely, but in this case im definitely a petrolhead
and if the power vs. consumption thing of a petrol motor gives me to much stront ill just flippen do overtime, sell some of my other stuff and then go and buy that bledie supercharger or turbo and whatever and THEN you'll see how much I enjoy my petrol head!!

[Nimeshin]

nice one Gravel

can i put a turbo or supercharger in my 2.7?

[ChrisF]

do want something that sounds like a 50cc on steroids ? Rather get a REAL V8 !!

[GravelMaster]

now you're talking nameshine! splash the dosh and give it a high quality charger, professionally done.
you're happiness factor will go that high, jy sal jouself wakker lag in die oggende en om die blok gaan jaag nog voor jy jou tande geborsel het of jou pajamas uitgetrek het.

and everybody that you've ever known who's even remotely connected, related, occupied, involved, affiliated or associated with a hilux bakkie will envy you so much they'll start to wear the same clothes that you do..!

you'll enjoy it so much the word 'fuel consumption' won't even matter to you after your overdraft has busted for the 3rd consecutive month. in actual fact. you'll even cancel your pension fund and decrease your missus's monthly allowance to keep filling your tank and if that's not enough you'll soon find that you'll withdraw your kids from school and start homeschooling, just so you cAn afford your fuel consumption and if that still fails you'll sell your BMW X3 and trade it in for a 1100 stock standard chevy spark or '84 renault T5, again just to be able to afford your hilux's juice. What normally happens after that is, you'll give up and then sell it after 2 years just as you have builded up your bakkie as the 'Master of the Road' and started to enjoy it. But you'll sell it for a give away price because by fitting the supercharger you have just donnerd up the re-sale value and the next guy in line will get all the benefits of all your hard earned cash and modifications. He'll by it under standard retail price and he'll enjoy it so tremendously for years and years after and vry his girl every full moon down by the beach on the front seat of your once so beloved bakkie , happy as a chappy !!

[yotaman]

:boredom:

[Nimeshin]

gravel... u should write a book.. I like the way you think
but i think the turbo will reduce fuel consumption... it will rerv lower ... calculated guess.. i might be wrong
I get company fuel

[ThysdJ]

but i think the turbo will reduce fuel consumption... it will rerv lower ... calculated guess.. i might be wrong

Performance enhancing goodies and improved fuel consumption dont mix... more power under the bonnet, releases the inner child, and invariably makes the right foot heavier.. it is a proven fact..
The Law of Petrolheadism

[ChrisF]

Thys even though you are right - we would love the opportunity to TRY and proove you wrong ...... so many smiles while being proven wrong .... :)

[ThysdJ]

Thys even though you are right - we would love the opportunity to TRY and proove you wrong ...... so many smiles while being proven wrong .... :)

I also made it my life's mission to prove me wrong Chris, so far unsuccessfully.. Power is lekker.. and I firmly believe there is "no replacement for displacement".... If only I owned a petrol farm..

[GravelMaster]

"Performance enhancing goodies and improved fuel consumption dont mix... more power under the bonnet, releases the inner child, and invariably makes the right foot heavier.. it is a proven fact..
The Law of Petrolheadism"

Thys, well said.

Shane, so you say you're happy with your 2,7's power deliverance? How hard is it for you or long does it take to reach the following speeds on a straight road with your 2.7. let's say 2 people in you bakkie and a 100 or 200 kg of luggage\extras\whatever:
140kmh?
160kmh?
is 170kmh+ possible?

[GravelMaster]

to make a long story short.

ive just bought myself a '93 SFA with a 2.7i conversion!!!

[Family_Dog]

Beeootifull!! That is a match made in Heaven.


But I don't see the photos... ;)


-F_D

[GravelMaster]

I know i know. cant wait to get hold of it!! what more than a beautiful taken care of SFA with a 2.7i and just the right amount and rightly styled extras do you ever need?

re the photies. im only getting the bakkie end of Jan and have no photos just now as i bought it on Gumtree and directly after the sale the owner removed the ad. It took something like 299 hits in 12 hours. i was the first one to view it and then bought it straight away. will post pics further down the line..
greet..

[Johan Kriel]

Costs depends what you like, no clear cut answer, but even the AA says diesel running cost are higher which I take also take with a pinch of salt.

The reason why I drive diesel: you can release the clutch and put foot, you don't have to rev the engine the get going, petrol engines have very little torque at low revs, at low speed and farms tracks the petrol is a pain. To service a diesel is much easier, change oil and filters, so mosts services you can do yourself.

But if you like petrol you won't like what I have said!

[Rebel 4x4]

Costs depends what you like, no clear cut answer, but even the AA says diesel running cost are higher which I take also take with a pinch of salt.

The reason why I drive diesel: you can release the clutch and put foot, you don't have to rev the engine the get going, petrol engines have very little torque at low revs, at low speed and farms tracks the petrol is a pain. To service a diesel is much easier, change oil and filters, so mosts services you can do yourself.

But if you like petrol you won't like what I have said!

Wat jy vergeet het om te se is: diesel suck as dit by duine kom! Petrol rules!

[Johan Kriel]

Nie die 3l d4d nie ,

[Rebel 4x4]

Nie die 3l d4d nie ,

Seker met 'n chip, cut cam, freeflow exhaust system, sonder canopy ens.

[Nimeshin]

hmmmmm

can i chip my 2.7 vvti?

[MORNE]

Wat julle ook vergeet het is as jy n 2.7i nuut koop gaan jy hom het hoef te diens tot 300 000km. Met n T/diesel gaan jy injectors , turbos ens. moet vervang wat seker ook n bietjie geld kos. Jy kan nie met n 2.7i kompenteer as dit by betroubaarheid kom nie , beslis geen T/Diesel nie.

[GravelMaster]

dankie Morne dat jy uiteindelik dit reg verwoord het. Hopenlik sal al die verlore Jannies tot insig kom.

Vir n T\diesel eienaar jouself is dit baie eerlike woorde..well done. goeie klas!

[HMcD]

So dalk kan die manne, na 'n jaar van hulle onderskeie petrol en diesel bakkies ry, my ook nou bietjie help.

Ek gaan 'n 2de handse bakkie koop, met meer as 100 000km op die klok.

So gaan ek vir die 2.7 of 4.0 Petrol, of 2.5 of 3.0 d4d??

Natuurlik sal elke bakkie wat te koop is op meriete moet kies, maar kom ons neem aan dis almal in redelik dieselfde toestant en binne my prys.

[Nimeshin]

Go for the 3.0 D4D.. if you looking to save on fuel costs and want acceleration...
I have the 2.7 and it is thirsty.. no problems otherwise, servicing at toyota costs about R1000 - R1200

[Blackadder]

Go for the 3.0 D4D.. if you looking to save on fuel costs and want acceleration...
I have the 2.7 and it is thirsty.. no problems otherwise, servicing at toyota costs about R1000 - R1200

Agreed

[Sun Chaser]

Hi Gents, so far I read its been a good long discussion about which is better, diesel or petrol. :problem: I must say, it looks like at the end of the day it depends on how much one can afford to pay for a bakkie. :|
Having said that, I am looking at buying a new model Hilux, but keeping my 3.0 KZTE, which has given me excellent service. I Get about 7.5km/l with a load, rooftop tent etc. I am looking for a newer model, less k's on the clock and hopefully a bit better fuel consumption. I think it wise for me to stick to a diesel, as i have a few friends with diesel 4x4's and doing a long trip together it would prob be a good idea if we all used the same fuel.
My question to those of you in the know is. Is there one or more of the new shape Hiluxes that are better than another. Is there a year model that Toyota has done some improvements on which would be in my best interest to look at buying.
There are a few on Gumtree at the moment ranging from 2008 - 2011.
I am looking for any of the new shape at a reasonable price, upper R200K is prob where i will be prepared to go, i just really don't want to be paying well over R300K. Eish we in SA pay alot for vehicles.
Please could any one help me in any way.
Thanx
Ian

[Sun Chaser]

My question to those of you in the know is. Is there one or more of the new shape Hiluxes that are better than another. Is there a year model that Toyota has done some improvements on which would be in my best interest to look at buying.