Maybe SFA not best for my needs?

[Kykdaar]

Did a quick weekend trip from Pretoria to a farm near Kimberley.

Vital statistics (keep in mind that the wind was really strong and blowing head on coming back on Sunday) -

R2100.00 spent on fuel
@ R12.24 (if i remember correctly) that translates to 171 liters of fuel
1240 km / 171 liters = 7.25 km / liter

Somewhat better than i expected and could have been even better if not for the wind and the fact that i had my foot flat down most of the time (not exceeding 120 km/h though) and running the aircon all the time.

The trip raised some questions with me -

1. How good or bad was the fuel consumption given the circumstances?; and
2. Is the SFA really the right bakkie for my needs (light overlanding and weekend trips with good to moderate dirt roads) or would i be better of with a IFS (more powerful, better fuel economy, more comfortable tourer, etc)?
3. Do i even need a 4x4 as i have, apart from some training, never even used it as i do not like obstacle riding at all.

Then there is the problem that i have a really excellent example of a SFA and am scared that i will end up with another bakkie that is not in the same league (quality, reliability, condition, etc)

What do the wise forum members think?

[AM Racing]

1. How good or bad was the fuel consumption given the circumstances?; and Not bad at all
2. Is the SFA really the right bakkie for my needs (light overlanding and weekend trips with good to moderate dirt roads) or would i be better of with a IFS (more powerful, better fuel economy, more comfortable tourer, etc)?fuel economy same, comfort better, slightly better power
3. Do i even need a 4x4 as i have, apart from some training, never even used it as i do not like obstacle riding at all.Depends on your definition of overlanding

[Hilux 1]

why do you own a bakkie then? even if you do not use 4x4 it is there for when you need it. and you can obviously afford having one so keep it.
IFS is not much better on petrol usage, i get around 7-7.6l/km suburb driving. when loaded and open road with a trailor it drops drastci to 6km/l and even 4km/l when the foot is a bit on the heavy side.

[Ali3n]

My honest opinion would be... Go have a drink and forget about the idea of parting ways with your SFA. You will regret your decission in no time at all. Unless it is due to affordability then I would say you should go for the KZ-TE. Not the 2.7i

[Kykdaar]

Affordability not an issue - bakkie is paid for and maintenance costs are low

Surprised to hear that the IFS is mot much lighter on fuel. The power (for sustained cruising) and comfort still count in its favour though.

Definition of overlanding in my context is cruising the gravel highways of the Karoo and Namibia. Because i travel alone and have a small boy i do not venture into remote Africa at this stage, or will not do so in the forseable future.

[AM Racing]

Keep the 4x4. My little guy loves the bush and 4x4ing whether overlanding or doing obstacles. The 4x4 gives you the opportunity to make it a family thing and you can choose just how far you want to go. I get my guy behind the wheel to steer and let him venture (slowly) through the bush. Going to a 2x4 will limit you later. I found the more I did the more I wanted to do (get out that is). Enjoy it!

[Mud Dog]

Agree with Dylan's answers to your question, but also know that you will really battle to find another SFA in reasonably good condition, so I can sympathise with your 'plight'. The SFA's are known for their low maintenance costs, so from what you've told us, if I were in your shoes I would keep it. Your desires might change and your son might be more keen than you are now as he grows older (happens quicker than you think). You might still be able to enjoy many hours / days of enjoyment together with your son in the SFA. Who knows, you could pass it on to him later as his first vehicle and if he becomes interested in hunting / fishing, it's an ideally suited vehicle.

[Mud Dog]

I see Dylan posted while I was busy typing, but he has similar ideas about it being something that the family can enjoy. Both my kids loved it .... still do even though they're grown now.

[GeorgeJvR]

I previously owned a 2.2 D/C SFA
2.2 S/C SFA
And a 2.4 D/C SFA LTD All standard motors.
Now i drive a 2.7 IFS

I'm advertising my IFS as i want to get myself a proper SFA again....
There aint any thing wrong with a IFS but i prefer a SFA to go 4x4
Overlanding - yes IFS much more comfortable
2.7 gives more or less the same fuel consumption as the 2.2 4y and 2.4 22R motors but lots more power

I'll sertainly mis my 2.7 on the open road / long distance but once you hit the gravel and 4 wheel drive you will not get better than a SFA.

Hope this makes your decision easier.

[ThysdJ]

The trip raised some questions with me -

1. How good or bad was the fuel consumption given the circumstances?; and
Those fuel consumption figures are fantastic! An IFS wont give you better figures than that, but a Vigo 3.0 D4D might.

2. Is the SFA really the right bakkie for my needs (light overlanding and weekend trips with good to moderate dirt roads) or would i be better of with a IFS (more powerful, better fuel economy, more comfortable tourer, etc)?
If you want more comfort,then IFS/Vigo is the way to go. Reliability is the same, it is a Toyota after all.

3. Do i even need a 4x4 as i have, apart from some training, never even used it as i do not like obstacle riding at all.
The IFS/Vigo Hiluxes are well suited to those conditions. Don't get a 4x2, that is a decision you will regret.

Then there is the problem that i have a really excellent example of a SFA and am scared that i will end up with another bakkie that is not in the same league (quality, reliability, condition, etc)

What do the wise forum members think?

The fact that you posted these questions shows that you have doubts about your choice of vehicle.

The best thing you can do is to base your choice of vehicle on your own personal needs. We can get sentimental and harp on about SFA reliability, offroad capability and all that stuff, but face it, it is a spartan vehicle offering a bumpy ride, which is built for travelling at 40km/h on a tweespoor track. It is an awesome offroad vehicle, no doubt! But the comfort you want on normal dirt roads can be delivered much better by an IFS vehicle.

It is a matter of horses for courses, and hanging on to a vehicle that doesnt suit your needs just because your laaitie might like to ride in it in 10 year's time just doesnt make sense to me. Your needs are now. I used to be in your shoes. Sold my SFA, got a Vigo and I am very happy that I made that change.

Will you regret selling your SFA after you sold it as many states? My personal experience says no. I never regretted selling my SFA. But that's me, I dont get sentimentally attached to vehicles.

[Kykdaar]

Think it boils down to deciding what you want from a vehicle.

Thys sums it up well.

For me i need some more power and comfort at this stage, whilst George again needs a SFA for more off-roading.

I take the point of staying with genuine 4x4 ability and agree that it makes the vehicle a lot more versatile in terms of where one can go on tour.

Thanks for all the great responses thus far - gives one food for thought.

[JEEPIE]

i would go for a vigo 2.5 d4d
light on juice
comfortable to drive
it comes with diff lock in the rear on the 2x4 (sufficent for sand roads and quite capable but not a 4x4 )
got 140 000+ on mine already and not a days trouble

i know this is coming from a jeep driver , but i drive a 2.5 daily
this past weekend we ventured off some descent sand roads , engage diff lock and it help up perfectly
my 5 year even fell alseep on the way back

[george]

Listen to Shaun.One of the few times he is talking sense

My 2c.I had a SFA and a IFS.I got a IFS for the comfort and more power for my overland trip through Africa.Not a bad decisions the IFS was great,BUT I missed the SFA and with proper suspension the ride comfort is also good. My next rig will be all about fuel efficiency so I will have to go Diesel.Just on the power re a 4y and 2.7.The 2.7 goes like the clappers if you rev the motor past 3500 rpm and then it is nice to drive.With my 4Y EFI the van was more driveable. I like to cruise at lower speed and i had to get use to the 2.7 constant gear change to get it going.
So my next rig will probably be a D4D but if I can get that motor in a SFA

[dustbuster]

Will let you know how my conversion goes with the 2.5 WL motor then you get best of both worlds power and a SFA without braking the bank as the conversion can be done for less than R30 000
Just speak to hoppy he will convince you, only problem

it will become a foryota............

[Kykdaar]

Will let you know how my conversion goes with the 2.5 WL motor then you get best of both worlds power and a SFA without braking the bank as the conversion can be done for less than R30 000
Just speak to hoppy he will convince you, only problem

it will become a foryota............

Yes, ramping things up under the hood is something i must perhaps research and consider if i decide to keep the SFA.

[Scott]

Look at the efi route and see on the forum what the figures are I have a manifold + injectors.On the forum you can look as to what you need to add to the list.And get a cost.

[Thabogrobler]

Of begin deur brandstof inspuiting op te sit?

Praat met Louis by Megaworld 4x4 Menlyn of JohanM, beide is hier op die forum.

[Kykdaar]

Will chat to Louis on EFI as it seems a possible cost-effective solution.

Having read through some of the threads relating to a EFI conversion on the 22R engine it seems, however, that a number of niggly issues / problems always arise as a consequence of the conversion which is something that concerns me.

[ForYota]

Will let you know how my conversion goes with the 2.5 WL motor then you get best of both worlds power and a SFA without braking the bank as the conversion can be done for less than R30 000
Just speak to hoppy he will convince you, only problem

it will become a foryota............

Hy ek is ook hier

Niks vout met my ForYota nie

[HennieO]

Will let you know how my conversion goes with the 2.5 WL motor then you get best of both worlds power and a SFA without braking the bank as the conversion can be done for less than R30 000
Just speak to hoppy he will convince you, only problem

it will become a foryota............

Hy ek is ook hier

Niks vout met my ForYota nie

Nee, net met jou spelling!!!! lol:

GRAPPIE!!!!!

[ForYota]

Will let you know how my conversion goes with the 2.5 WL motor then you get best of both worlds power and a SFA without braking the bank as the conversion can be done for less than R30 000
Just speak to hoppy he will convince you, only problem

it will become a foryota............

Hy ek is ook hier

Niks vout met my ForYota nie

Nee, net met jou spelling!!!! lol:

GRAPPIE!!!!!

Dis nog vroeg man

[HennieO]

Niks vout met my ForYota nie [/quote]


Nee, net met jou spelling!!!! lol:

GRAPPIE!!!!!
[/quote]


Dis nog vroeg man [/quote]


Nie te froeg vir die fierde koppie kovvie nie!!!

[Stef]

Will chat to Louis on EFI as it seems a possible cost-effective solution.

Having read through some of the threads relating to a EFI conversion on the 22R engine it seems, however, that a number of niggly issues / problems always arise as a consequence of the conversion which is something that concerns me.

Lately I have been having the same doubts as you...and I have done the EFi (and also pretty chuffed with it).

I look at it this way, If I sell my SFA and buy a D4D, say 2007 4x4 stock standard, it would cost around R185k. That is a R100k more than I would get for my SFA. In terms of fuel economy thats is whole lot of mileage to do before breaking even if there is only a 3.5 km/l improvement over the 22R EFi, not to mention the extras I will have to reinvest in...which then translates into less travelling anyway.

For the number of trips I do currently, the SFA is just fine (it is my leisure vehicle, not my daily runner), and my Polo is still more economical to run than a 3.0 D4D (but I still would love to own one nontheless )

[kfxnando]

with recent reading that I have done, have noticed that the days of the true 4x4 as we have are numbered!!
and are being replaced by AWD SUVs!!

there are now many AWD vehicles on the marked very well suited to what the Andre's needs seem to be!!
more comfortable, better on fuel and good offroad capabilities!! great for overlanding
yes not meant for heavy offroad or heavy trails

true offroad vehicles with SFA, are becoming fewer and fewer, and for that matter some have even lost the SRA

all new bakkies that come to mind including the hilux have lost their SFA!!
as most people dont have the need for such set up, as is the case with Andre

not saying sell or dont sell
maybe just time to broaden the options a little




besides the reading
have seen a BMW X5 at Nine mile parking (sodwana bay) when the trail was in possibly in the worst state that I had ever seen it!!
Jeep Grand Cherokee in ten years of models has lost its Solid front and rear axle and gone Independent suspension all round!!
in the new upcoming Jeep GC there will even be a 4x4 with no low range model!!


maybe time for a Jeep!!

[jacques kotze]

Regarding fuel consumption, my 2,5 d4d gives me a average of 6 - 6,5 km/l over the last 4 tanks. But I always have a trailer in tow with masts and equipment on. My 4.0l V6 Prado gives me better consumption than this.

[ThysdJ]

Wynand (Shimano) made an interesting observation at our last outing to Welgelegen. When we started riding with Hilux4x4 in 2007 90% of all the Hiluxes who attended our outings were SFA's. At Welgelegen there were only 2 SFA's and the rest were Vigo's and one IFS..

Signs of the times??

[Kykdaar]

I had a CRV before, but it was a bit to soft for the type of trips i want to do.

Going for a much more expensive bakkie is also not an option for me as the application is pure leisure trips. It thus makes no sense to tie up a large capital sum for such use.

Basically it boils down to foregoing the SFA's 4x4 serious capability (which i do not use) for the IFS's comfortable overlanding capability (which is what i like to do). Still want to retain some 4x4 capability, but it does not have to be at the level of the SFA.

One excellent condition SFA coming up for sale soon. Keep an eye on the forum.