You Drive Me Crazy !!!

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branyster
High Range 2WD
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Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:42 pm
Town: Leicester
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux Surf 4Runner
Real Name: Nick

Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:50 pm

Hello,

I bought a Toyota Hilux Surf 4Runner 3.0 litre Automatic 2 weeks ago from Lytham St Annes and drove it home to Leicester. Half way home the car developed a terrible shaking from the front, the steering wheel was going crazy. I've had my MOT garage mechanic examine the car and he checked steering, ball joints, bearings, and suspension, all good. I then had the 2 x front wheels balanced. My mechanic has also done an Oil change on the engine and gearbox, he has also checked the Oil in both Axles which actually look New too. Engine pulls strong. But there is a Vibration when engaging the Auto box into the Drive position driving down the road. On Saturday after the wheel balance, I took the car out into the countryside, driving about 40 or 50 mph. The vibration from the front happened again. It felt like something was holding back the car. I am worried this is a Drive Shaft or Axle problem or worse the Auto box ???
Does anyone know what the problem is ?

I've owned a Toyota Land Cruiser Prado 3.0 Automatic for 14 years and It's been the most reliable car I've ever owned and I've been driving since 1985. So know something serious is wrong with the SURF.

Please Help. :beg: I only bought this 4x4 due to a catastrophic engine failure on my BMW 520 Touring.

Thanks
Nick
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Rigger
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Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:23 pm

I will next replace the universal joints in the drive shaft and check the center carrier bearing if it is fitted with one. Not that familiar with the Surf.
branyster
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Town: Leicester
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux Surf 4Runner
Real Name: Nick

Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:35 pm

On Friday 21/9/2018 I took the Surf to a very good 4x4 Mechanic in Leicester, The Garage is called D&G 4x4. Geoff said "how many Garages have you taken this to ?" Only my Mechanic and the MOT Garage he uses called Graham Goode Racing" Geoff then asked If I'd like to see what he had discovered on the Toyota Surf !  YES of course. Geoff got his Mechanic to sit inside the car to operate the Steering and then Raised the 4 Post Lift. We then Took a L@@k !  Well I was Gog Smacked !  It was So Obvious to See the FAULTS with the Car from Underneath.

Oh WOW !  How did the MOT garage mechanic who examined the car who checked the steering, ball joints, suspension, and found NO Issues have Missed these Faults??

The Steering Rack and the Bar above it ALL had Shot Warn Out Rubbers or are they called Bushes ?  The Bar on the Rear had similar Fault too.  Surely these are all MOT Failures ? The Ball Joints may also be Suspect. I am Hoping these items will FIX the Shacking Steering and Vibrations.

 No Idea how much this will all Cost.
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Haboob
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Fri Sep 28, 2018 11:44 am

Check your steering damper shock as well...
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HABOOB means "Dust Storm"
branyster
High Range 2WD
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Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:42 pm
Town: Leicester
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux Surf 4Runner
Real Name: Nick

Sun Sep 30, 2018 7:36 pm

D&G 4x4 have fitted the new Power Steering rack mounting bush kit and the Drop Link Anti Roll bar bushes to for the Front but the 19mm Drop Link Anti Roll bar bushes on the rear were the wrong size.

The Steering has improved alot but there is still an issue, but what ? The steering through the rack feels a little loose around 40 - 50 in the countryside. Or is it the BF Goodriche tyres ?

Finally, turning left into my driveway this morning after returning from a Sunday Car Booty (turning almost at full lock the car felt like it was being held back) But I got out and the Wheel was not touching the Wheel Arche.

No idea if this is a Steering or Driveshaft Issue...
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branyster
High Range 2WD
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Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:42 pm
Town: Leicester
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux Surf 4Runner
Real Name: Nick

Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:07 pm

UPDATE:

REPLY FROM https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/ne ... &p=3997542
This is a common issue on the Surf and 90 Prado, it is play in the steering column.
There are a few fixes on various websites, some involve removing the column and doing a spot welding. Other fix it with some sort of rubber gaiter. If you can LIVE with it, it's not a MOT failure, just a bit annoying on uneven ground.

MY REPLY to https://www.4x4community.co.za/forum/ne ... &p=3997542
You are a good person for telling me this IS indeed a FAULT, like you say, I'm convinced this has been an Ongoing Issue and No MOT Station (garage) has Picked up on this FAULT with the TOYOTA. I cannot LIVE with this, I won't enjoy driving the SURF and it will have to GO if I cannot get this FIXED.

Why are you so sure it is Play in the Steering Column? Can you point me to the FIX for this? Welding is Fine and or the Rubber Gaiter FIX. And why when turning left into my driveway at almost full lock, the car felt like it was being held back, but the Wheel was not touching the Wheel Arch?

This Might Resolve my Problem? But I'm not sure I have this Steering Box...

Steering Box: Steering Box Adjustment on a Toyota 4Runner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3KFaAbCr2Y
branyster
High Range 2WD
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Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:42 pm
Town: Leicester
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux Surf 4Runner
Real Name: Nick

Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:35 pm

OH DEAR !!! More Bad News ! Email from RoughTrax.

We don’t list a steering box for your model, I see the link in the email states the video is of a 4Runner which is the earlier model to yours so I don’t think it will be of any use.
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Mud Dog
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Real Name: Andy
Club VHF Licence: HC103

Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:24 pm

Ouch! :blink:
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
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Mud Dog
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Real Name: Andy
Club VHF Licence: HC103

Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:34 pm

Man, the Surf was basically an adaptation of the Hilux / 4Runner - there might be some cosmetic differences besides the fact that one is an SUV and the other a truck but there must be commonality in the drive trains, motors and other mechanical spares incl.steering components . I would look at images of the different Surf, Hilux / 4Runner boxes and compare them. :think:
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

Image
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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
branyster
High Range 2WD
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Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:42 pm
Town: Leicester
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux Surf 4Runner
Real Name: Nick

Mon Oct 01, 2018 5:51 pm

I think I have found the article to Weld the loose slip joint on the Steering.

https://www.ttora.com/forum/2-early-...ay-rattle.html
branyster
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Vehicle: Toyota Hilux Surf 4Runner
Real Name: Nick

Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:57 pm

UPDATE


1.) I've Bought and Replaced the "STEERING RACK BUSHES, ARB LINKS and BUSHES"
https://www.milneroffroad.com/toyota...-rack-bush-kit

2.) The Loose Slip joint on the Steering column is on my List to Do !
The problem is that a slip joint along the steering column, (which is designed to collapse during a front end collision), develops a small amount of play over time. Toyota has never done a recall for this issue, so it's probably safe to say that the slip joint won't actually come completely loose to the point that you cannot steer the car. The upper steering assembly can be replaced completely, but many people who have done this report having the problem come back after some time.


3.) The stiffness on full lock, is also a common fault.
I will get D*G 4x4 to examine the TIE ROD ENDS (inner and outer), UPPER AND LOWER BALL JOINTS.

I also heard a clunk from front left steering when parking yesterday (Monday) Moving the small gear lever out of 4x4 drive yesterday took some time to do. While in Park, I did hear noises and whinning... But I eventually got it back into 2 wheel drive and the Steering was smoother / easier including full lock...

I do also hear a vibration pulling away, but I've No idea what that noise is.... drive shaft ? Gearbox ?
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Tim86
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Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:26 pm

If you are hearing gearbox noises and whining then the vibration may be from the box. Are you hearing vibration, feeling it, or both? Does it only occur in 4wd or both 4wd & 2wd. Try and isolate the noise/vibration - gearbox area, middle (rear prop), or rear(axle/diff). Is it only when pulling away (don't know autos - torque converter??), or within a certain speed range (prop or diff bearings maybe, or prop unbalanced, or rear diff pinion loose, wheels unbalanced). Feel for play on all bearings down the driveline.

It doesn't have a front auto locker by any chance?
branyster
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Vehicle: Toyota Hilux Surf 4Runner
Real Name: Nick

Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:48 pm

Thanks for reply Tim. The vibration moaning is usually when pulling away. I will pass on your thoughts to Geoff at D&G 4x4 Specialists in Leicester.
branyster
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Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:40 pm

I've just been to see Geoff at D&G 4x4 Specialists in Leicester. His 4 post lift had a vehicle on it. So my car did not get inspected. Geoff has asked me to find out if anyone sells a Steering Damper for the Toyota Hilux Surf 4Runner 3rd Generation ? It was shaking from the Front again
branyster
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Sat Oct 20, 2018 10:41 pm

:blink:
Geoff today also advised I get the Toyota Surf's Wheel Alignment check done next too. That and replace the Rear Anti-Roll Bushes which I ordered today.
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Mud Dog
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Vehicle: '90 SFA Hilux DC 4X4, Full OME, 110mm lift. Brospeed branch, 50mm ss freeflow exhaust. 30 x 9.5 Discoverer S/T's on Viper mags. L/R tank. (AWOL) '98 LTD 2.4 SFA, dual battery system. Dobinson suspension, LR tanks, 31" BF mud's.
Real Name: Andy
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Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:44 am

Glad to see that you haven't given up Nick and that you're still plugging away at the problems. :thumbup: You're going to get to the bottom of it sooner or later. :winkx: :D:

The steering dampers should be readily available from after market spares outlets or shock absorber distributors. Good luck.
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

Image
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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
branyster
High Range 2WD
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Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:42 pm
Town: Leicester
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux Surf 4Runner
Real Name: Nick

Sun Oct 21, 2018 9:18 pm

Hello Mud Dog !

Regards to the Dampers, Can you point me into the right direction of these after market suppliers ? Sorry I don't have a Clue.
YES, I won't Stop until this Car is Sorted.

Many Thanks
Nick
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Mud Dog
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Vehicle: '90 SFA Hilux DC 4X4, Full OME, 110mm lift. Brospeed branch, 50mm ss freeflow exhaust. 30 x 9.5 Discoverer S/T's on Viper mags. L/R tank. (AWOL) '98 LTD 2.4 SFA, dual battery system. Dobinson suspension, LR tanks, 31" BF mud's.
Real Name: Andy
Club VHF Licence: HC103

Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:15 pm

I don't know the names of UK spares suppliers but I believe you get the Monroe brand of dampers over there. They produce steering dampers and should be able to supply the correct one for your model. The same will probably hold true for many of the other damper brands available to you there. Check with your local shock absorber fitment centres, they must be able to source for you or point you in the right direction.

I mentioned Monroe because they are a decent quality product with a reasonable price range, but brands like Bilstein, Old Man Emu, Fox etc will be able to supply the correct steering dampers as well but they are normally mote pricey because their products are more in the "performance" range.

Good luck, let us know how it went. :winkx:
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

Image
Image

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
User avatar
Mud Dog
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Posts: 28853
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:18 am
Town: East London
Vehicle: '90 SFA Hilux DC 4X4, Full OME, 110mm lift. Brospeed branch, 50mm ss freeflow exhaust. 30 x 9.5 Discoverer S/T's on Viper mags. L/R tank. (AWOL) '98 LTD 2.4 SFA, dual battery system. Dobinson suspension, LR tanks, 31" BF mud's.
Real Name: Andy
Club VHF Licence: HC103

Sun Oct 21, 2018 11:26 pm

P.S. Your man, Geoff should be able to steer you right. :scratch:
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

Image
Image

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
branyster
High Range 2WD
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Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:42 pm
Town: Leicester
Vehicle: Toyota Hilux Surf 4Runner
Real Name: Nick

Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:49 pm

Oh dear, more problems... I had the Toyota Hilux Surf on a Hunter Alignment machine today (Saturday) at 8:30am and the Front Camber, Caster, and Toe are all out on the Front Wheels. Unfortunately I couldn't get it resolved due to the Caster / Camber Adjusters are Seized. I drove back disappointed. Geoff the mechanic will have to undo these.
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Mud Dog
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Vehicle: '90 SFA Hilux DC 4X4, Full OME, 110mm lift. Brospeed branch, 50mm ss freeflow exhaust. 30 x 9.5 Discoverer S/T's on Viper mags. L/R tank. (AWOL) '98 LTD 2.4 SFA, dual battery system. Dobinson suspension, LR tanks, 31" BF mud's.
Real Name: Andy
Club VHF Licence: HC103

Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:08 am

Not good to hear, Nick.

Sadly when buying an older machine one doesn't know what underlying problems come with it and there's always a risk factor, but if it's not a total pig in a poke and you didn't pay premium, it's mostly worth it to restore, especially if you're the handy type or learn as you go along. That not just from a financial aspect (they command a pretty decent resale value), but also the knowledge gained from the restoration point of view and then of course the pure driving pleasure.

Here's hoping that there are no more surprises. Good luck. :thumbup:
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

Image
Image

Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
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