PS23 additives

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Asterix
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PS23 additives

Post by Asterix »

I came across this site: http://www.ps23.co.za/ and saw it at Midas as well.

I just would like an opinion reagrding this. I am very reluctant to mix oil with any additives - any way that is my opinion.
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Re: PS23 additives

Post by Big D »

I agree. Dont use them.
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Re: PS23 additives

Post by Riceburner »

Bly weg van daai K>>>>.K
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Re: PS23 additives

Post by 3RZ »

Stay away, have a look here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2431

and

Would you put Chlorine in your engine oil ? Duralube was tested and contained 30% chlorine

http://oilspecialist.com/reasons/the-fa ... tives.html

The Facts About Aftermarket Oil Additives

What about Oil Additives like Slick 50, Prolong, Zmax and others
The fact is they are totally useless and in many cases actually detrimental to your engine. The Federal Trade Commission has issued charges of false and deceptive advertising that these and many other additive manufacturers have misled consumers into believing that their products offer increased engine protection and performance when added to your motor oil.

Federal Trade Commission Charges zMax with False and Deceptive Advertising
ZMax is the latest company to be charged in a long list of companies. The FTC has successfully halted false and deceptive advertising by the marketers of Dura Lube, Motor Up, Prolong, Valvoline, Slick 50. STP and other major brands of engine treatment systems.

Without going into extensive detail here's what you need to know about aftermarket oil additives: There are basically two types of additives used, either Teflon based with PTFE (like Slick 50) or Chlorinated based (like Dura Lube) with some type of carrier, usually a paraffin based carrier or other mineral oil. Some have extremely large amounts of moly, zinc or phosphorus, all extreme pressure agents which are detrimental to a motor oils proper function in the amount that they use.

Teflon does absolutely nothing inside your engine. Teflon must be heated up to about 800 deg. F to get it to stick to anything for friction reducing purposes, just like the Teflon on a frying pan, yet in your engine all those suspended microscopic colloidal Teflon particles do is gradually attach to your oil pick-up screen and reduce oil flow to your critical components as well as reducing the oil flow in other critical internal engine passages by attaching themselves to the passageway walls. In addition, as your oil filter filters out some of these suspended Teflon particles, your filter flow rate will be reduced which may eventually become restricted and default in to by-pass mode, which means unfiltered oil will be flowing through your engine.

Ever get bleach on your fingers? It's pretty slippery isn't it? Same principle here. Add enough Chlorinated components to a carrier and mix it with some type of teflon, moly, zinc or phosporus & you can reduce the friction, except for one "minor" thing: Chlorinated additives mixed with oil and subjected to heat forms hydrochloric acid! Hydrochloric acid is extremely detrimental to you internal engine parts. Get the picture? That's it in a nutshell. Bottom line is: When using a properly formulated motor oil you do not need any additives whatsoever and additionally, the additives you may put in can react negatively with the additives the oil company carefully blended in. Do yourself a favor and stay away from aftermarket oil additives, regardless of how appealing the bogus claims they make in their advertising are!

What if They Have a Test To Show How Their Additive Works?... Read On............
At a recent trade show we were at one of these miracle oil additive companies was there with a machine that demonstrated how their additive reduced friction. It was a motor with rotating solid steel disc secured to the motor shaft and a torque meter with a flat piece of steel mounted on the torque arm. They put every type of oil on the market, one by one, on the machine & pressed hard on the torque meter and at about 20-40 lb-ft torque the torque arm would stall the motor....that is until they cleaned it off & tried their (chlorinated) additive "IXL" on the bearing & ran the test.

People were amazed as the meter peaked out at 140 lb-ft. torque and still didn't stall the motor! We knew what was happening but many unsuspecting consumers were eating it up and standing in line to buy the additive! The next day we showed up with some Head & Shoulders Shampoo disguised in an oil bottle & had the IXL additive people try it on their test machine. The operator was amazed as the motor just barely stalled at 140 lb-ft! The operator says that's pretty good stuff, what is it? We said Head & Shoulders. He was quite embarrassed to say the least. Head & Shoulders has high levels of high potency ZINC in it that attaches itself to ferrous metals. Coke soft drink will do exactly the same thing. ZINC reduces friction and provides anti-wear protection and is present in most motor oils at a much reduced level. Now, would you put Head & Shoulders in your engine?

Additionally, the test machine was measuring EXTREME PRESSURE. Motor oils do not have extreme pressure additives blended in like gear lubes do. Their is absolutely no need for EP additives in a motor oil. A gear lube would not stall the motor as easily because gear lubes have high levels of Extreme Pressure additives blended in, but do you think they would test their IXL additive against gear lubes? Heck no! They use motor oil....They are comparing apples to oranges & tricking you into buying their additive! Same theory holds true for Slick50, Prolong, Dura Lube, Motor Up, Valvoline Engine Treatment and many others. Please DON'T be fooled by oil additives!

http://www.technilube.com/faqs_info/additives.php
Oil Additives

Should you use oil additives in oil?
No, and here are many reasons why not:
Most oils already have their own additive package, and AMSOIL is no exception. AMSOIL already provides superior protection, and should you add one of these additives, the additive formula may not be compatible with the additive package in the AMSOIL (or any oil, for that matter), and end up causing more damage than protecting. Adding an additive will also void the warranty AMSOIL provides with their product. AMSOIL has many times said that if the additive worked, they would have been using it in their oil already.
What kind of additives are out there?

Additives are generally using one of three ingredients to "protect" your engine: Teflon (PTFE), sulfur or chlorine. Yes, the same chemical you use in your pool you are pouring into your engine.
Some of the PTFE formulas would be Slick 50, QMI, Greased Lightning, and Tuff Oil. Those containing chlorine include Dura Lube, and Prolong. Many of these companies have already been sued or had the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) come down on them.
The carrier base of these additives are made from either kerosene or mineral oil, and then the "miracle" additive. When chlorine remains within an engine for a long period of time, as in normal oil usage, it breaks down and forms hydrochloric acid. A sulfur additive will break down forming sulfuric acid. These acids now start to eat away the inside of the engine and pit it.

The Teflon based additives often advertise that they bond to the engine. In order for Teflon to bond to a surface, it needs to reach temperatures much higher than the operating temperature of your engine. Should your engine reach these temperatures, you no longer would need an additive to protect it. The Teflon can also build up like sludge within the engine, blocking pours and channels, preventing oil from reaching places, often then causing damage. These PTFE additives also have large enough particles that a good oil filter will take them out of your oil almost immediately getting rid of any supposed benefit soon after pouring it in. But if it doesn't, and a bit starts to build up, it will continue to build until the area is starved of lubrication. I've heard from several well known local mechanics mention engines that they had worked on that had bearings go bad, massive baked on sludge deposits, or other engine failures due to an additive.
At one point the U.S. Army looked into a PTFE additive to see if it would benefit their vehicles. They trial tested 10,000 vehicles and found no evidence of improved gas mileage or performance, as advertised, however, 5% of the test vehicles did encounter some sort of engine failure.
Also as these additives start to break down and mix with other engine by-products, the exhaust gases formed tend to rust your tailpipe.

In addition, used oil is often sent to plants that burn it. Should you dispose of your Prolong or Dura Lube "protected" oil in a proper recycling station, it will most likely end up at one of these plants. As the chlorine burns, it now is converted to chlorine gas, and pumped into the air from the plant smokestacks.

In Summary
One of the mechanics that gave me this information has sent several samples of various additives and oils to the AMSOIL labs so that he could have a better understanding of what they consisted of. Two such tests I have copies of were on Slick 50 10W-30 Motor Oil, and X-1R. The results of the X-1R test made it back to that company, and they sent a rather entertaining letter back to the mechanic. X-1Rs claims to be NASA approved. In a sense they are telling the truth, one of their products has won an award from the Space Awareness Alliance, however, this product is a lubricant for the Shuttle Crawler called "Crawler Track Lubricant" and not the X-1R oil additive that gets promoted to the automotive public.
I also have copies of two faxes from Texaco regarding Dura Lube and Prolong. It seems AMSOIL is not the only company that has come to the same conclusion of suggesting to avoid adding oil additives.

The last company I heard was under observation from the FTC was zMAX a few years back for not being able to support their claims..
Also click on some of the links I have found on additive reviews, the Consumer Reports findings, and FTC charges. Do your own search at the FTC Web Site located at www.ftc.gov.

Articles
Is That Additive Really A Negative? - ROAD RIDER/August 1992
Slick 50 and Other Oil Additives
Slick 50 and Other Oil Additives - Readers Comments
Motor Oil Additive Cos. OK Deals - Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
To Add or Not to Add - Are Aftermarket Oil Additives Worth It? - Modern Car Care
FTC Charges

DuraLube:
FTC Charges Motor Oil Additives Marketers; Ads for Dura Lube Were False and Unsubstantiated, Agency Says
Dura Lube, Motor Up Settle FTC Charges

Motor Up:
Claims That "Motor Up" Oil Additive Reduces Engine Wear By 50% Were Unsubstantiated
Prolong:
In the Matter of Prolong Super Lubricants, Inc.
Prolong Super Lubricants Settles FTC Charges
Prolong Super Lubricants, Inc. Complaint

Slick 50:
Quaker State Subsidiaries Settle FTC Charges Against Slick 50
Quaker State Ads For Slick 50 Are False and Misleading, FTC Charges

zMAX:
Performance Claims For zMAX Auto Additives Are Unsubstantiated, FTC Charges
Asterix
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Re: PS23 additives

Post by Asterix »

Jis, dankie vir al die info. Dis baie interesant.

Ek was skepties maar het nie sulke klipharde feite gehad nie :!:
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Re: PS23 additives

Post by Bfreesani »

Gees :oops: , here I sit with a bottle of Prolong gearbox treatment ready to go into my daughters golf as the box crappy.

Strange thing is that I saw them selling prolong oil the other day. Full 5litre bottle "off the shelf and put into gearbox oil" no additive needed with this one. Not sure of the price, and the guy tells me that he sells to this stuff to half the gearbox places in Gauteng.
Later....
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Re: PS23 additives

Post by Sifu-Lux »

We have used PS23 in industrial gearboxes in our factory where we had problematic high running temperatures (due to wear). As a short term solution in one
reduction gearbox the temperature was running @ ~ 138 deg C, and after 6 hours of running with PS23 added it dropped to ~ 110 deg C.

What we did find when we drained the oil some time later was that there was a jelly like layer at the bottom of the gearbox housing.

In general, I would not recommend adding any additives, unless it is an absolute last resort and you plan to replace the parts later anyway.

Just my 2cw
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Asterix
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Re: PS23 additives

Post by Asterix »

That put's a twist on things Andrew!

Maybe can benefit in some less complex applications like diffs & manual gearboxes. From the earlier posts that stuff will definitely not end up in an engine of mine.

Thanks for the input!
DOELLOOS

Re: PS23 additives

Post by DOELLOOS »

3RZ wrote:...The next day we showed up with some Head & Shoulders Shampoo disguised in an oil bottle & had the IXL additive people try it on their test machine. The operator was amazed as the motor just barely stalled at 140 lb-ft!
Does this mean that if I have a bottle of PS23 in the garage that I should rather wash my hair with it?

:wth:
Asterix
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Re: PS23 additives

Post by Asterix »

Does this mean that if I have a bottle of PS23 in the garage that I should rather wash my hair with it?
No Ewald! Rather let your wife try that :mrgreen:
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