TO DO OR NOT TO DO A GOLF CARBURETOR MOD...

Discuss modifications on your 1979 to late 1998 SFA 4x4 Hilux here.
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Rusti
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Mon May 18, 2015 3:44 pm

So... My standard carb needs to be re-conditioned.. When I'm driving I'll drop a gear or take off from stop street and the bakkie will speed up a bit and then dip for a second or 2 and then take off again.. Not all the time but it happens once or twice every drive..

SO... Maybe instead of spending money on re-conditioning etc it would cost a little more to just have the golf carb mod done.. And give me more power and save fuel.. If this mod works it would seem that miracles really do happen...

I've found a few great posts on the old 1800 carb mods on the forum and it looks great! BUT it just seems to easy and far too good to be true.. And I'm extremely hesitant to fit a part that was designed for a completely different car... The good thing is that all the posts I found are dated 2008/2009 SO could all of the folks that had it done PLEASE let me know how it has gone over the last few years..

Is it all that you thought it would be?
Has it had any side effects?
Have you had your bakkies dyno tested before/ after & anytime since then to see long term effects/
Has it been reliable?
Any overheating?

Thanks a TON!
dax021
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Tue May 19, 2015 11:42 pm

Hi Rusti, did my 4Y a few years ago. Can't say there are any performance gains, but am getting about 2 litres per 100 Km's less consumption. From about 5.5 Km's/L to about 7.5 Km's/L. I think my original carb was pretty stuffed though, so the improvement might not actually be that different from a properly tuned original carb. If I had the cash, I would rather do an EFI conversion
Rusti
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Thu May 21, 2015 7:11 am

Thanks dax.

I had that thought before too.. But have heard that you lose torque at low revs(in low 4x4) and that it limits your water crossing capabilities because the control box can't be submerged or you cut out and are stranded. Anyone else heard of that or had that experience? I'm going to travel the rest of Africa 1 country at a time at the end of each year so I need to consider these things. BUT that's also why I need to look at fuel consumption saving too.. I want to do Mozambique at the end of this year but petrol works out to about 12k return from Cape Town.
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Willied
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Wed May 27, 2015 12:26 pm

Duane, my EFI controller was fitted behind the dashboard.. How deep would you want to wade.. As for low down torque, not true.. The intake manifold on the multi point fuel injection is longer than that of the carb giving more torque. My stock motor made 230Nm below 2000rpm and 81kW at 3800rpm.. Good values for a motor that was designed in the 60's. Power delivery is much more constant and it makes for a more drive-able vehicle. The added idle control valve also ensured that the vehicle would not stall at low rpm with the brake applied when crawling over rocks and the like.

The nice bit about EFI is that it isn't some lost dark art like most carburetors are.. Talk to Louis here on the forum and never look back. The only way to beat an EFI system is with one on a bigger motor.
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Mr_B
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Wed May 27, 2015 6:23 pm

I note that Rusti has a 22R 2.4L... EFi would definitely be the way to go, but the fuel injection manifolds for that motor are pretty scarce.

I driven a 2.4 with EFi... all I can say is it's flipping nice... worth hunting for the parts required!
Tjomma
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Wed May 27, 2015 7:24 pm

Hi Rusti

I did the conversion and did a roundtrip from Plett to Kgalagadi. About 3000km. No hassles. good fuel consumption and enough power. I would do the conversion again. I also had my trokkie dyno'ed. its imperative that the setup is done correctly.

Just my 2 cents
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Thu May 28, 2015 12:56 pm

Hi Rusti
I did the conversion, vehicle goes well but still heavy on fuel. Hope some one can tell me here to have it Dyno tuned.
I live in Sedgefield. Hope Tjomma has some info for me.
Thanks
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Willied
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Fri May 29, 2015 7:32 pm

Mark, and that is the dark art.. Jetting and working out ventures is more play than calculate..
Rusti
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Sun May 31, 2015 6:32 am

Hi guys.

Thanks for all the advice. Much appreciated. Its interesting to see everyone's opinions.

The wading depth is one thing because it's not something I'm going to look fo but it's just 1 example of (what would you do if something goes wrong with the injectors) Just so much easier to work on my carb in the bush than it would be to scratch my head while looking at the injectors. Don't get me wrong.. ive heard great stories about the efi mod and I know I might seem paranoid but I think for the amount of and type of trips i want to do I'm looking for a non electronic means of fuel consumption saving.

The efi cutting out in water was in last month's say 4x4 magazine. Where the red hilux was washed down river. His mate with efi tried to pull him out but his efi got submerged and his bakkie cut out leaving both of them there. I'm going to look at some weber carbs for the mean time. I know they are not nearly as good as the efi mod but I think it's perfect for what I'm looking at.

Thanks again guys. Always appreciated!
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Sun May 31, 2015 8:18 am

Rusti wrote:Hi guys.

Thanks for all the advice. Much appreciated. Its interesting to see everyone's opinions.

The wading depth is one thing because it's not something I'm going to look fo but it's just 1 example of (what would you do if something goes wrong with the injectors) Just so much easier to work on my carb in the bush than it would be to scratch my head while looking at the injectors. Don't get me wrong.. ive heard great stories about the efi mod and I know I might seem paranoid but I think for the amount of and type of trips i want to do I'm looking for a non electronic means of fuel consumption saving.

The efi cutting out in water was in last month's say 4x4 magazine. Where the red hilux was washed down river. His mate with efi tried to pull him out but his efi got submerged and his bakkie cut out leaving both of them there. I'm going to look at some weber carbs for the mean time. I know they are not nearly as good as the efi mod but I think it's perfect for what I'm looking at.

Thanks again guys. Always appreciated!
Rusti I have done a few carb mods over time. The art of carb tuning is a dying art. Not arguing the fact that EFI is better.

Setting up carbs is not that difficult and once you understand the basic working of a carb and its different circuits and stages it is all plain sailing.

I did a Weber carb conversion on my 2F Cruiser many moons ago. Had more power and better fuel consumption. Top speed increased with about 15km/h. There are a lot of people telling you about flooding the engine in off road conditions.

Found that with a decent float level setting on a Weber this seldom happens.
Love Weber`s they are just now nonsense easy tuning carbs.

DGAV 32/36 Weber will work a charm on your motor
Tjomma
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Sun May 31, 2015 12:46 pm

Buddie wrote:Hi Rusti
I did the conversion, vehicle goes well but still heavy on fuel. Hope some one can tell me here to have it Dyno tuned.
I live in Sedgefield. Hope Tjomma has some info for me.
Thanks

Hi Buddie. Got it done in George with Supatune. I have done a previous car there and that oom is nogals oldschool. Took my whole carb apart and did the jets and all. But only because I used a secondhand orginal carb which needed some saving. Oh, and btw, DO NOT USE RED DEVIL ON ANY APPLICATIONS WHERE FUEL IS INVOLVED. Learned that the hard way. :(
Rusti
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Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:42 am

Hi Christo and Jofre,

Jofre sorry I thought your meant you did the EFI conversion.. How long ago did you do the golf convert? And how many km's ago?

Christo, come to think about it... I remember reading an old post saying that weber cabs cut out when riding up steep hills.. Is that what you are referring to? But there was something that the guys did to counter act that..Do you solve that with the float level settings? I'm also not arguing that EFI is better. I just feel that for what I want it for a carb would suit me best.. just like some people swear by diesel and others swear by petrol so I hope I have not offended anyone.

Where can I buy the weber kits here in Cape town? Or do I need to order it from USA. It would be nice to have a rep that I can speak to face to face and get some guarantees regarding the consumption results..

Has anyone used cone filters etc..? Wheres a good place to go for Dino tuning and testing? I want to record my current test results. Then do the cone filter and test it again. And then a snorkel and test it again and then the carb etc etc.. Would be nice to get it all on paper and post it on the forum to see what the actual differences are as there are allot of opinions for example as to whether or not a snorkel has any effect on consumption but I've never seen any actual evidence..

Thanks again guys
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LouisZ
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Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:55 am

Efi problem is not the wading depth, its how it is done.

The biggest problem for your type of engine will to get the Manifold for the 2.4. You get them from the states but be warned, don't believe anything you see on e-bay. you only get halves of the manifold ie not complete, so make sure before you buy there.

Cone filters, that will be the death of your engine if you go through water. Great maybe for a road care maybe but useless for a 4x4.
Rusti
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Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:58 pm

Thanks Louis.

I was thinking about it over the weekend and the wading scenario is also an issue regarding immobilisers etc because that computer box will also go.. I really don't expect to have to wade that deep nor do I want to but I just want to know that we can get out of it if need be.. I want to find no man's land on every trip so I'm concerned regarding electronics.

Really not an easy decision...
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Willied
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Mon Jun 01, 2015 6:46 pm

Duane, you have made up your mind so I am not going to try and convince you about pro's and con's.. Fact is petrol injectors do millions of kilometers before they give hassles.. Diesel injectors are the sensitive ones.

I had a Weber 36DCD on the Lux with great results. Set the float yourself for the inclines you will be tackling and you are sorted. But, big but.. I lived and worked in the Transkei and had my share of bad fuels. Add a 2micron filter or the rust you will find in the fuels will have you split the carb every second tank to clean the jets.
Rusti
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Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:06 am

Thanks Willie, that's some great advice.

What's the difference between the different weber carbs available? Different performances for different uses? A different model was recommended above. Is there a weber rep/ agency in Cape Town that I can speak to?
Rusti
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Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:09 am

Louis.. I forgot to ask you why cone filters are useless in water and 4x4?


Thanks
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LouisZ
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Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:06 am

Cone filter is used in place of another filter ie in our case the Donaldson filter housing.

Now these filters are usually open, open to suck water and in some cases depends on quality not very effective keeping out fine dust. They more used on high performance cars to get a lot of air into the system fast that a normal filter will strain. Its good for the performance cars because its usually one run and then the filter gets replaced.


In a 4x4 scenario, water, gravel roads etc not a good idea. Now if you place the cone filter again in a housing you back where you started.
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Willied
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Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:58 am

Rusti wrote: What's the difference between the different weber carbs available?
Different model numbers dictate specific features the carbs had. The DCD is a mechanical progressive carb meaning it had two intakes "tubes" and one would only open past 50-60% throttle.. Increased economy.

As for the DGAV, I have no experience with them and could not say.
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Mr_B
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Wed Jun 03, 2015 12:38 pm

A cone filter has no place on a vehicle used offroad... it's only good enough to filter out stones, large bugs and small birds... don't put one on your 4x4... unless you plan on doing street dragging!
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Kaspaas
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Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:31 pm

Mr_B wrote:A cone filter has no place on a vehicle used offroad... it's only good enough to filter out stones, large bugs and small birds... don't put one on your 4x4... unless you plan on doing street dragging!

:banned:

Easy now Mr B, In Dubai this was all they had on, even the CAT earthmoving equipment have had their oil pan air filters replaced by Cone filters.
Tru's BoB, I swear........ :crazy2:
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Rusti
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Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:19 am

I thought the cone filter would still be housed and that it's shape was responsible for added performance. No way I'm taking that chance.

Thanks guys.
Rusti
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Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:43 am

Willie that sounds interesting. Do I have to order them online or is there a distributor that I can go speak to face to face?

Also... and this is a big also... Do you guys think it's worth it to strip the whole motor down, give everything a proper clean and full service, replace all gaskets, rubber pipes etc? When Francois and Hoppy replaced the timing chain they noticed the radiator pipe looked a bit old so 1 light pull and it tore straight through.. It was buggered so I'm worried about other pipes etc..

My dad is a mechanic so I could do this with him and it would give me more much needed mechanical experience... Problem is he stays 1.5 hours away so I might have to take a few days off work but I can manage that..

My biggest concern is that it's running great so I don't really want to mess with something that isn't broken.. yet..

Thanks a ton for all your help guys! Much appreciated.
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Willied
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Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:37 am

I am not sure about Capetown for a supplier, I know there is one in PE and Pretoria. Maybe worth the call..

CARBURETTOR WORLD CC
95 Du Toit St Pretoria Central
012 324 4444

As for old pipes and the like.. Drop them and get it over with.. preventative maintenance can even keep Landies running.. :siffler:

I would hold back on gaskets like the head gasket and the like. If you are worried a compression test would give you peace of mind.
Rusti
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Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:52 pm

Awesome!!

Thanks Willie!
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