4Y EFI Conversion - Chapter 1

Discuss modifications on your 1979 to late 1998 SFA 4x4 Hilux here.
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Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:17 pm

Carrying on the EFI discussion from the "General Discussions" thread...


Someone mentioned to me that the Chinese 4Y cylinder heads may not have the holes predrilled for EFI... would I be able to see this by visual inspection without stripping half the engine?


-F_D
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Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:18 pm

Eric

the hole for the injectors should be just above the intake manifold in the head or maybe in the intake manifold itself right next to the head.

I took a pic of my 7MGE engine. the injector goes into the head just on top of the manifold and spray the fuel into the intake line just behind the inlet valve.

Image

This is how an injector looks, the left side goes into the head, so that will give you an indication of what to look for.

Image

If your head already has the holes it means that you do not need to get a new manifold.

All you will need is to buy injectors, a fuel rail, a pressure regulator, hi pressure fuel pump and the ECU.

You can take the Weber off and put the old Chinese Carb back (or leave the Weber on) and use it as the throttle body. If out in the bundus and the EFI fails you can always connect the fuel line back to the carb and drive it that way back home :wink:

Fuel pump

Image

Pressure regulator

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Since your engine already has electronic ignition, you can buy the Mr Turbo Fuel only ECU to drive the EFI and you do not need to worry about the ignition system.

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Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:47 pm

Bennie,

When you put it this way, it certainly looks very easy!

Where (and how) does the ECU fit into the scheme of things? I take it that it only controls the flow of fuel, in the scenario above. Therefore, does it control the pressure or flow of the fuel pump, I guess the pressure valve looks after pressure. When I hit the accelerator, would it increase the flow of fuel through the pump?

I'm off to Durban for a week's break on Saturday, will give this some serious thought when I'm back. Wonder if there are any Durban outlets where I can buy an EFI while I'm there?

-F_D
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Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:17 am

The Mr Turbo or Dicktator you can buy up in Gauteng from their manufacturers directly at about R2K. I know the Mr Turbo does have a fuel only option, not sure about the Dicktator.

The fuel pump like in the picture is a high pressure pump (I think Bosch - normally from a VW) that gets switched on by a relay also also powering your injectors with 12V. It pumps at a constant rate and the fuel pressure regulator makes sure that the pressure on the injectors are fine and the excess is pumped back to the tank on the return line.

Here is a block diagram of the Mr Turbo.

The red is the compulsory connections to have and the blue is optional

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Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:41 pm

Bennie,

The Block Diagram does explain a lot. So the ECU controls everything as per the diagram and all I need are the mechanicals. Looking better all the time. But... it seems the Chinese have pulled a fast one on me, as per the photos I have just taken.

4Y Inlet Manifold 001 (640x480).jpg
4Y Inlet Manifold 002 (640x480).jpg
4Y Inlet Manifold 003 (640x480).jpg
4Y Inlet Manifold 004 (640x480).jpg
Guess I need a new manifold.


-F_D
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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
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Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:34 pm

I do not see any places for injectors either. Sorry. But some good news. O spoke to Chris from dictator and the dictator is fully capable of running the Fuel only option as we discussed.

Maybe we must speak to the guy at Spitronics to see when his kit which will be a throttle body with injector housing as a bolt on to a normal manifold will be available.

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Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:10 pm

As luck would have it when I drove home this afternoon, I saw this white Lux standing at my neighbours place. I had to go and discuss something with him so I walked over.

This Lux was brought there by a guy from some or other "engine conversion place" in Silverton so that Schalk could do a dyno on it. This Lux has a 4Y with a EFI conversion in. so I could take some pictures.

Image

It uses the normal Toy electronic ignition dizzy and a Mr Turbo EFI ECU, just as I suggested earlier in this thread. The guy ( I forgot his name) who brought it there also said he dislikes the Mr Turbo. They are involved with motor sport and his son is some or other big shot at BMW Motorsport.

He said they prefer to use the more expensive imported ECUs like Motec http://www.motec.com.au/ for the racing cars, but at over R 20K for a ECU it is not really an option for Joe Soaps like us. The other problem is that since it is an imported unit, you sometimes have support issues having to send the units back overseas to get it fixed. From the choice of locally manufactured units under R 5K he also recommend Dicktator.

Back to this Toy, look at where the injectors fit into the intake manifold.
See the injector marked in red, the fuel rail in blue and the pressure regulator marked in green.

Image

He mentioned that on a previous 4Y EFI conversion he did he had to swap the Exhaust Manifold as well as the original one did not fit with the EFI intake manifold.

Image

Image

What I saw on this installation was the sloppy wiring. I guess that is one of the reasons why so many people are afraid that EFI systems, complainng about reliability. I believe if you do the wiring properly you should not have any problems with reliability.

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Thu Oct 04, 2007 5:17 pm

Eric is there anyone in Klerksdorp that would be able to mod your existing manifold to fit the injectors into it, and also make you a fuel rail out of aluminium to fit at the back of the injectors?

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Thu Oct 04, 2007 7:45 pm

Bennie,

Thanks for those photos, they really put things into perspective. Some questions:

* Does Schalk know the name of the place that did the EFI conversion?

* Is that the standard intake manifold, which has just had Injector holes drilled (and presumably tapped) into it?

* There are Engineering shops here who could obviously drill the holes for me, but I wonder if they would drill them in the correct places? Is it all that critical that they are drilled equidistant from the inlet valves (I would guess so)?

Does Schalk perhaps have a "before & after EFI" dyno comparison? I don't really expect much more power from the conversion (although that would certainly be nice!) but EFI probably does adjust the Torque Curve somewhat.

That particular Hilux seems as if it probably came from the Coast somewhere, there seems to be quite a bit of rust build-up in places in the Engine Bay.

Thank you for all the advice, I appreciate it :D


-F_D
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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
Hound Dog: 2000 2.7i SC 4x4


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Thu Oct 04, 2007 9:35 pm

Family_Dog wrote: equidistant
Jeez where do you come up with these words. :shock: :shock:

Ja I guess it would make a difference if the distance is not the same. My concern is that there is not enough "meat" on he normal manifold to get holes in at such an angle that the injector is pointing towards the inlet port and not down towards the side wall on the opposite side if the manifold It would have been nice if someone who can do aluminium welding can add some meat to allow the engineers to drill the hole at an angle.
Family_Dog wrote: Does Schalk know the name of the place that did the EFI conversion?
Nope he only knows the guy but when I asked him what the okes business name was afterwards he too could not remember.
Family_Dog wrote: Does Schalk perhaps have a "before & after EFI" dyno comparison? I don't really expect much more power from the conversion (although that would certainly be nice!) but EFI probably does adjust the Torque Curve somewhat.
This bakkie's EFI conversion was done previously already. He brought it in to dyno after he overhauled the engine. The nice thing about these aftermarket EFI's is that you can also play around with the engines performance a bit by changing the settings at a specific conditions

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Fri Oct 05, 2007 5:30 pm

Our local P'nP Hyper has a 'Gonow' DC bakkie parked inside the foyer, being the prize in a some competition or other. The bonnet was open so I looked at the engine, which appears to be a normal Chinese 4Y but with EFI. Couldn't see much though, the EFI manifold covered everything but it was interesting anyhow.

The overall finish on this vehicle doesn't seem to be quite as good as GWM, but that is speaking only from the engine compartment point of view. I didn't look inside the vehicle to see how the interior was finished, I was just interested in the engine. Weird spoked pulleys just looked cheap.

Maybe I should enter just to win and remove the EFI and then trash the bakkie. :mrgreen:


-F_D
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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
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One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


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Fri Oct 05, 2007 9:13 pm

Hi Bennie

Your mate is right about the Motec ECU`s they are great bits of kit but I think its really overkill for the Hilux I think the MR Turbo or Dictator system will work great. The E90 330`s that they are racing at the moment uses Motec as there are lots of things controlled by it including the VANOS system however the valve tronic system is disconected at the moment and is set to max lift as they have no way of controlling it with the Motec system however they still manage about 200 odd Kw at the back wheels :mrgreen:
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DOELLOOS

Thu Oct 25, 2007 8:18 pm

Howzit F-D

This seems like a complicated and expensive operation. Why not just listen to your heart and go for the horsepower... 7M-GE...

If nothing else, it will keep you busy for hours on end... hehehe

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Thu Oct 25, 2007 9:16 pm

Don't get Bennie started on this, he is already bending my arm to try the EFI conversion... which might go further provided I do not have to hack my treasured Hilux up to accommodate anything else. I nearly cried when I drilled the holes in the roof and dashboard to accommodate the two-way radio aerial & mic hang-up clip respectively.


-F_D
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Thu Oct 25, 2007 11:44 pm

Not to worry eric it is only a small nip and tuck and one the radiator is in place you will think it came like that out of the factory. Come visit me and I will ask Charmaine to take you to the mall and by the time you get back it will be over and done with :twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

DOELLOOS

Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:57 am

It's like Benny says F-D, not a big issue at all...

It's like having your toe-nails clipped... a little uncomfortable while your doing it, but afterwards it feels great...

DOELLOOS

Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:53 pm

This is the link you want F-D...

http://www.4xtech.co.za/hilux22efi.htm

Have fun...

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Fri Oct 26, 2007 6:16 pm

Yeeee-Haaaaa....

This looks VERY interesting, esp. the bit about power going from 67 to 80kW and Torque from 150 to 195nm.

Is this possible? I would have expected mild increases in both, but these are significant improvements.

But why, oh why, do they have to be in Cape Town :(

Will shoot them an email and enquire, certainly will only be an eye-opener!


Thanks, Ewald :)


-F_D
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DOELLOOS

Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:51 pm

Thought you would like it....

Nogal Genuine OE parts...

Must say that I am sad that you will not be getting that 7M...

Me and my big mouth...grumble....grumble...grumble

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Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:13 pm

That 7M is a definite bargain (Don't tell Bennie about it - they may just still have it! :mrgreen: !). I didn't even bother asking about it in my email, 'cos I'm sure it's been long since sold.

But if I ever do decide to go the 7M way, it would make sense to buy a bit closer to home, for guarantee purposes.

I suppose I will only get a return email next week, unless Wessie checks his emails over the weekend.


-F_D
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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
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One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


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DOELLOOS

Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:02 pm

Howzit F_D

How does R 5,900 sound for the EFI conversion of your 4Y engine? This includes everything from fuel pump, pipes, management, fitment, fine tuning, etc.

The guy who does it is here in Pta, and he says he has 3 manifold with injector sets (OE Toyota) specifically for this conversion in stock. He says you drive in with carburettor, and drive out with fuel injection.

He says it takes two to three days.

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Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:50 pm

Hi Ewald,

Which company is this in Pta? Do they have a website? I like the idea although the price is a bit scary. But then if he uses genuine Toyota injectors etc, that is to be expected. Do you know what ECU management system he uses?

Would love to hear he could do it in *one* day... would really make logistics to & fro so much easier!

-F_D
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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
Hound Dog: 2000 2.7i SC 4x4


One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


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DOELLOOS

Fri Nov 02, 2007 7:41 am

No website that I know of, but his name is Danie and his number is 083 990 9400.

Maybe you can just buy whatever you need from him if the conversion price is to much. I'm sure you know what a spanner looks like. hehe

Dadz Toy BFI

Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:31 pm

Seriously looking at going the EFI route, my 4Y only has 176K on the clock and I'd hate to have to rip it out.

Has anybody had the 4xTech EFI Conversion or am I going to be the Forum's Guinea Pig?? :-)


Rich :roll:

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Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:00 am

HI Dadz Toy

Looks like you may just be the Guinea Pig :mrgreen: :D 8) However it will not be in vane :!: As you know there are always leaders and followers 8) And the good old Guinea Pig always does the leading into un charted waters so to speek. So as far as I am conserned he is a top dog :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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DOELLOOS

Mon Dec 03, 2007 7:22 am

and poorer for it....hehehe :mrgreen:

Dadz Toy BFI

Mon Dec 03, 2007 8:20 am

You'rea persuasive Man Pieter!

Now is a gooder time than ever as I'm sat with a gun-gummed exhaust and a Carb' in need of attention :oops: !

I'm planning a weekend in the Cederberg at the end of Jan with a mate who 'after some persuasion' bought a 84 60 Series Cruiser. He's just kitted up with OME Suspension and 33" Bridgestone's so he's biting at the bit to try her out, I don't need much encouragement to hit the dirt!!!

I've been offered a pair of BMW (ex. 635csi I think, Price R1,8K for both) front seats, leather, integrated seat belts, motorised etc., do you think they'll fit? My original driving seat is in a sorry state so I'm seriously considering.

I'm booking in for an Inspection and minor service with 4xTech, hopefully they'll give me the nod for the EFI conversion, then I'll put on a Stainless Free Flow Exhaust (any exhaust system recommendations?)

Think my penny-bag is going to be a bit lighter just now!

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Tue Dec 04, 2007 9:30 pm

Hi Guys!

I phoned GWM to find out what a fuel injectionsystem would cost me.
They quote me: Inlet manifold R 1 200, Injectors R 800 each, Computerbox R 5000, fuelpump R 2000. Can not remember all the other small parts, but the total amount was R 15000. It is a Bosch system.

Andries

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Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:14 pm

Andries,

Thanks for this information! Now for Bennie's input on the Bosch system. That setup is quite expensive, but if it delivers it might be worthwhile in the long run. None of us are intending selling our SFA Hiluxes anyway!


-F_D
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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
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Hound Dog: 2000 2.7i SC 4x4


One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


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Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:33 pm

I don't think there is anything wrong with the Bosch system, but it is expensive and can not be mapped or optimised by anyone except the agents, so I personally would not go for it but if you prefer the reliability of a OE type unit this may be an option.

See if you can get cheaper prices for the injectors from Mr Turbo or Dicktator. I see Mr Turbo now sells the Bosch type fuel pumps for about R 300 but they do not show injectors or pricing on their site anymore.

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Wed Dec 05, 2007 2:49 pm

I just spoke to a guy an Mr Turbo but they are out of stock on Injectors until February, but he reckons that it would be much better to get a manifold with injectors, fuel rail and fuel pressure regulator directly from one of the engine importers, then you would only need a fuel pump and ECU.

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Wed Dec 05, 2007 4:19 pm

I spoke to the guy at Mr Turbo and he does not have stock on injectors and might only get in January

But he reckons that it would be better to buy a complete intake manifold with injectors from the engine importers.

So far the only guys who has a unit in stock for is selling it for about R1700 (Manifold+Injectors+fuel rail+Fuel Pressure regulator) So F_D if you are interested you must tell me and I can go buy it for you. Going this route the complete conversion (excluding Dyno) would be in the region of about R4K.

Dadz Toy BFI

Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:23 pm

Yeah, you've just 'Hit the Nail on the Head' BIGTIME Eric!!!

Look guys, we're just gonna except that we drive the Ultimate 4x4 and many will covert :lol: !!

I've resigned myself to the fact that I'm just gonna have to put up with the "Are you willing to Sell" notes on my windscreen and occassional guy stopping me in the street, reckon it's a Small Price to pay for My Duty!!

It's sure gonna be nice to sport an EFI badge on the back of my lady :D :P !

I'm booked in for an 'assessment' on the 10th, soooooo

Watch This Space!!!

Rich

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Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:12 pm

OK, you guys have convinced me!

Bennie, I phoned Danie in Pretoria, he stays in a place called "Eastlynne" (SP?), which he says is fairly close to where you live. Danie is going to find out if he can get an ECU tomorrow and let me know. His preference is the Mr. Turbo chip, because he is able to map that directly, but he cannot map the Diktator box. He also does not have access to a Dyna.

We have provisionally booked for the week starting Monday 17th December, hopefully, I will have someone to run me back from Pretoria to Klerksdorp, because I will have to leave the Hilux there for a few days.

If you're available, I was wondering if I couldn't bring her through to you, and perhaps you could take her to Danie on Tuesday, as Monday is a public holiday. All this hangs on whether I get the Hilux back from the Spray Painters in time, whether Danie can get hold of a Chip, and whether you're available or not. Danie will confirm with me tomorrow.

The Game begins... :P


-F_D
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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
Hound Dog: 2000 2.7i SC 4x4


One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


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Dadz Toy BFI

Wed Dec 05, 2007 7:55 pm

What did he quote you please Eric?

Keen to know if the guys at 4xTech are competitive! :wink:

Rich

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Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:10 pm

Hi Rich,

He works from his house, so he could possibly be a bit cheaper. Here is Ewald's original post:
Howzit F_D

How does R 5,900 sound for the EFI conversion of your 4Y engine? This includes everything from fuel pump, pipes, management, fitment, fine tuning, etc.

The guy who does it is here in Pta, and he says he has 3 manifold with injector sets (OE Toyota) specifically for this conversion in stock. He says you drive in with carburettor, and drive out with fuel injection.

He says it takes two to three days.
Danie confirmed this.

-F_D
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Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
Hound Dog: 2000 2.7i SC 4x4


One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


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Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:16 pm

No problem I do not mind, I will be glad to help.

Rather let him install the Dicktator and then we can get Schalk (my neighbour) from DynoLogic to properly Dyno it for you afterwards.

Danie must just let Chris from Dictator know that it will be used as a fuel only unit on the 4Y E-dizzy so that he can supply the unit with the proper filter to clean the input signal. He should be able to start the engine with the default map and then we can drive it back to Schalk.

I just spoke to him and he will also be back from leave by the 18th and he said he needs 2 days and will charge R 660 for the engine mapping on his Dyno. (Day 2 is simply to set and test the cold starting mapping)

Dadz Toy BFI

Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:20 pm

Wow Eric that's a keen price!!

Doesn't he want to come to Kaapstad for his holidays (working holiday!!) :twisted:

Thanks Man

Rich

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Wed Dec 05, 2007 8:26 pm

Rich

I am sure you would be able to source the parts in CTN at the engine importers as well, for about R 4K. If you buy the plane tickets and provide accommodation I might just be persuaded to come down and help you with the installation :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

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Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:52 pm

Guys

I went to a scrap yard today and they have a few of these units available so I reserved them. I bought one for myself; it is the complete intake manifold, throttle body, fuel rail with 4 injectors and fuel pressure regulator and also the exhaust manifold.

I will be able to get them at R 1400 each. Are there anyone who would interested in buying a unit to DIY the conversion.

I might do a EFI conversion on Limey and then do a write up on it or maybe we can do Eric's van and do the article on that.

Let me know who would be interested. If we get enough orders I might be able to get it for a few bucks less even as I think I would be able to haggle this guy on price still.

Dadz Toy BFI

Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:10 pm

Well Done Bennie!!

Count Me In, but I do need someone to be the guinea pig and Eric sounds like the PERFECT choice!!

With sufficient technical info I'd have a good go however would need some Kaapstad based backup for the serious stuff ie. mapping. :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

Any one in Kaapstad want to join me in reserving a unit?? OR giving me the technical support?

Cheers Bennie, send me your bank details when you've done the final negotiations

Rich :D :D :D

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Thu Dec 06, 2007 1:29 pm

Bennie, that's great.

What vehicles did they come from? Are you sure they will fit the 4Y?
"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant."

Dadz Toy BFI

Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:01 pm

Hope to be shortly posting:

FOR SALE:

4Y Carburettor - Free to a loving home (no longer needed!) :lol:

Hope you've found the right stuff Bennie :?:

Rich

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Thu Dec 06, 2007 2:21 pm

Wouldn't that be nice. A bit more power with better response and better consumption figures.

Don't forget the cost of a managment system, what would that be I wonder? Bennie would it need a fuel only system or timimg as well?
So many questions, too little time to answer them :mrgreen:
"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant."

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Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:10 pm

Scooter,

Well, the only real way to get answers to your questions is to come up to Pretoria and help us do the mods on mine... :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


-F_D
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White Fang: 1999 2.7i DC Raider 4x4
Bull Dog: 1987 4Y-EFI 2.2 DC 4x4
Pra Dog: 1998 Prado VX 3.4
Hound Dog: 2000 2.7i SC 4x4


One Staffie, One Jack Russell, One Ring Neck Screecher, 17 Fish of questionable heritage


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Thu Dec 06, 2007 4:25 pm

HEll yeah :!: Of course I would have to get it past SWAMBO first :mrgreen:
"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant."

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Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:12 pm

It comes of of what they call Toyoya 3YE engines, but the head is the same as a 4Y head the one they striped for me actually had the letters 4Y cast on the Head. According to them the 3Y and 4Y use the same head, but it differs slightly from my 2Y in that the 2Y has smaller intake ports but it should still fit.

The standard Dictator ECU goes for R2100 and yes you will use it as a "fuel only" setup with the 4Y's E-Dizzy, unless your vehicle were still using points and condenser, but then you need to have a hall pick up installed into the dizzy. Spitronics charge about R 350 for that.

I am going to use the Mr Turbo that is now installed in my red bakkie as I want to change that bakkie's to a dictator too, but the first price is to use the Dicktator on 4Y conversions as well due to the Interpolation features that the Mr Turbo do not have.

Dadz Toy BFI

Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:25 pm

Good to see your on the ball Benny!! :D :D

Thanks for all yur hard work

Think MANY will follow!!

Please send me your bank details to everatts@telkomsa.net, when you're in need

Many thanks!

Rich

Ps. You go 1st with the fitment, I'll be the next to follow :mrgreen:

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Fri Dec 07, 2007 6:30 am

Thanks for all the work Bennie, looks like the dream of EFI on a 4Y can finally become a reality.
I undfortunately will have to wait till next year before attempting this as time (read finance) will not allow for it right now. :mrgreen:
I am definately interested though.
"I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant."

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Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:54 pm

This discussion is continued under this topic:

4Y EFI Conversion - Chapter 2 (viewtopic.php?f=34&t=1172&p=9383#p9383)

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