Hilux 4x4 Forum

Stunning job, well done

ps. those black rims are going to look awsome!!!

Andrew, this has been a well documented and interesting thread to follow. I may not have commented too much along the way, but I have been watching it keenly. Simon Morris (AKA Simoan) also did a comprehensive thread on the swivel hub which was made a 'sticky', but even so, once you're done I'd like to do the same with this one (with the help and permission of the other mods ) for future reference by our members. The two can perhaps even be coupled . As our SFA's get on in years, this is a maintenence project that we will all have to do sooner or later.
Well done! (The job and the thread!)

Andrew, I agree, this is a very informative and well illustrated thread. I posted a link on the Hilux4x4.co.za Facebook Group (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=100902221365#) to this thread to share it with others as well. Well done!

I think we're all in agreement here!

Andy, when Andrew has finished, please do make it a sticky, after first removing any other non-relevant replies.


-F_D

You are most welcome to post as a sticky for others to use

Thanks again for the great feedback !

This morning I started to reconnect all the bits and pieces to the axle.

I started by re-installing the shocks to their lower mounting points on the axle. Because the axle is now 35mm further forward, I needed to bend the lower mounting brackets at a slight angle to accomodate the new angle of the shocks.
Next I refitted the shortened drag link. Went on OK, but I need to check the clearance between it and the rear U-Bolt to make sure it is still OK after the mod, as it will now run at a slightly steeper angle.
I then moved on to reconnecting the brake lines, and I then bled the entire system and flushed it out with new brake fluid to all the wheels and the load proportioning valve. While I was at it I also replaced the clutch fluid and bled it too.
I also re-filled the front diff with new oil (Castrol EPX 80W90 GL-5) and then drained and refilled the rear diff too.

Then for the moment of truth Would my home designed adjustable torque rod work ?

Well, it fitted first time Made some small adjustments to the length and then tightened the bolts and fasted the lock nuts.
With all that done, I fitted the rest of the wheels with the remaining 33" tyres, and here's the result.
I then temporarily installed the front propshaft so I could measure the exact length I need to lengthen it. It worked out that I need to make it 45mm longer. 35mm for the axle move + 10mm for the extra height from the OME springs.

With all that done, I called it a day. Some time next week I will take the propshaft in to have it done.

So, almost there ! I will drive the Lux a bit first, before I see wether the body lift will be necessary, but from what I can see, the front edge of the front tyres are possibly going to snag on the rear of the front bumper plastic corner during maximum articulation.

Look's great Andrew, now you have to take mom for a looooong drive to a nice scenic spot, picnic blanket, cheese & wine, (admiring the new lux, of corse ) and some more all round pic's please

Awsome :!: :!: :!:

Great Andrew!

When you ready, let me know and we can go flex it a bit somewhere and see where the wheels touch.

I went and had the propshaft made longer by 45mm today. They cut the old tube off and then welded in a new longer tube, balanced it, greased it and painted it. All in one and a half hours, and only R 250 :D

At this point, I must say I can really recommend Vasco at PE Propshafts. Really customer oriented and fussy about a quality job. I even got a cup of tea while I waited (and watched what they were doing in the workshop )

Here is the modified propshaft being balanced
Here is the modified front propshaft next to the original one
Since it looked a bit bare, I found a place for my left over forum sticker :wth:
I then cleaned up all the flange mating faces, wiped them with a small amount of copper grease and fitted the front propshaft, and here's the result

Like the propshaft www.hilux4x4.co.za sticker!

I took the Lux for a quick spin around the neighbourhood to check everything still works
No problems that I could see, hear or feel, but... I parked the Lux half on the pavement to articulate the front axle and check the draglink to u-bolt clearance, and the draglink just touches the u-bolt when the drivers side suspension is hanging down. I was not fully at the suspension downward travel limit either, so I can see this being a problem.
I think I will build something like these examples to fix this issue. Will have to do some surgery to my brand new draglink for a second time :shifty:

Anyway, here is the long awaited final result
Will place some more info once I attacked the draglink issue

I used one of those 'Z' drag links on mine. I used to get binding on articulation which prevented me from steering when the drivers side wheel was at full droop. It used to drive me nuts... Anyways I had Ronald make me up a bent one and it was heaps better...

You can kind of see it in this photo... Sorry for the bad quality, and please excuse the power steering leak (pesky banjo fitting...)

Thanks Jonathan

Thats exactly what I want to do !! It's definitley one mod leading to another. The journey is such fun

Hope your Green Lexus powered machine is running well. Are you planning to come back to PE at any stage?

The green monster is running great thanks, she's visiting the man in Polokwane at the moment. A 2 day visit has turned into a 2 week visit while we wait for parts from the USA :evil: As you said, one mod leads to another and another

I definitely plan to pop into PE again, but sadly not in the next 6 months. Dam project up here is keeping me on the hop, but who knows, with Eishkom running out of money I might have a lot of free time soon

Looking good Andrew when you plan on testing her off road

Awesome thread and a pleasure to read!!

Nicely done...!!!

Cookie Monster wrote:Looking good Andrew when you plan on testing her off road

Will have to make a plan hey Justin

Here is my current draglink setup, basically standard except the draglink is 35mm shorter, and at a slightly steeper angle.
I took a few measurements tonight and stripped and disassembled the draglink again. Looks like the offset I will need is 60mm in the "S" shape.

Will make this up tomorrow and see if it works.

OK, so here as promised are the final costs and all (most of) the items I needed etc for the axle overhaul, 35mm move and 33 " tyres.
I should have no further anticipated costs now. I hope

Well done

Nice job Andrew, it took me about three hours to convert all of this to an article.
I placed it at http://www.hilux4x4.co.za/front-axle-re ... /index.php for easy reading and will also update it as you sort out the drag link.

Well done!

Thanks for yours efforts Piet, although I don't feel too bad about your three hours hard work I did a rough calc and worked out I put in over 80 hours this last month doing the job and posting the progress.

I just checked, and I took 571 digital photos of the job :Geek:

Anyway, I had the draglink cut, bent and rewelded according to my sketch, and here is the re-shaped draglink.
I fitted it tonight, and it went in fine.
Here you can see that the clearance now is much better.
As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating , so I will try to give the new setup a test this weekend and report back with some Peekchaz ! (after I mow the lawn tomorrow... )

I did a quick test run this afternoon (sorry no Peekchaz) on a twisty dirt track at the back of Fairview. It's quite shocking the amount a building rubble and other rubbish people just dump in the bush. Must be thousands of loads, and it looks terrible.

Anyway, back to the topic. Everything performed faultlessly, and I did not notice much difference, if any in power in low range with the bigger tyres. :D

The only small issue I had was that the inside rear edge of the front tyres touched the front leaf springs at full lock, so I had to be a bit careful when doing any tight turns.

When I got back, I quickly fixed that problem. I set the Lux up on jack stands to lift the front wheels off the ground, the turned the wheels full lock to see where they were catching.
You then need to loosen the steering travel stops (in my case, the rear ones) and turn them out until the tyres cannot reach the springs anymore at full lock.
So that looks like it. So far I don't think I'll need a body lift (the Lux, not me), but if I do, I'll start a new thread.

As a present to myself, I bought myself a new tyre deflator from ARB This thing is really awesome to quickly deflate your tyres to the right pressure (especially wih bigger 33's). The body screws onto the valve, then you use the centre piece to unscrew the valve core, then you pull the collar back and hey presto out rushes the air without the valve core restricting the flow. Push the collar back to check the pressure as you go. At R 540 bucks its quite expensive, but its well made and just lekka
Thanks for watching, and the moral support and constructive comments.

A well done project Andrew! Bet you learned a lot .... like the adjustable end stops on the steering. I wonder how many of the guys know that it's there.

Now we'll want to see that lux at the National GTG!

Yeah Andy, I never thought about them until I rebuilt the axle and found myself asking " I wonder what these are for ? " (once I found them under all the old grease and sand build up )

It was a good learning experience, and really not difficult to do. Just a fear of the unknown I suppose.

Looking great Andrew! Cannot wait to see it in action.

Sifu-Lux wrote:Thanks for yours efforts Piet, although I don't feel too bad about your three hours hard work I did a rough calc and worked out I put in over 80 hours this last month doing the job and posting the progress.

I just checked, and I took 571 digital photos of the job :Geek:

Anyway, I had the draglink cut, bent and rewelded according to my sketch, and here is the re-shaped draglink.

Bent and rewelded draglink.JPG

I fitted it tonight, and it went in fine.

Re-shaped S draglink to clear u bolt.JPG

Here you can see that the clearance now is much better.

Draglink to u bolt clearance after re-shaping.JPG

As they say, the proof of the pudding is in the eating , so I will try to give the new setup a test this weekend and report back with some Peekchaz ! (after I mow the lawn tomorrow... )

Andrew

I was wondering, couldn't you simply turn the rear joint ( on the wheel side 180 degrees and fit it from the top?

Bennie,

I am sure you could, but I've never seen it done. You would have to press the ball out the J-Arm and insert it from the top. Then because you have done that, you then have two choices to complete it:
1 - Press the ball out the pitman arm (I don't even want to go there) and insert it from the other side.
2 - Cut the draglink, rotate the pitman side of it 180 deg and re-weld it.

I think my method was the easiest

Or, if you are really wanting to change things you could do this:

From the old non existent website: http://www.4x4.co.za/john/default.htm (I saved this a few years ago)

"FRONT STEERING MODIFICATION - 15 FEB 2001
Another casualty of moving the front axle forward by 35mm was the steering draglink. It needed to be chopped by 35mm. I've never liked the Toyota draglink setup and after a modest suspension lift it was working at an awkward angle anyway.
The new spring perches added 8mm to the thickness of the spring pack, which caused the draglink to rub on the top end of a U-bolt. I decided to modify the steering draglink completely. I just recently bought a brand new draglink and steering arm for just over R2500 and was now having to cut these very items - ouch.
Even more sad is the fact that I threw my old ones away.
Anyway, I decided to buy a "shot" steering arm from N1 4x4(the side that fits on the axle - they charged me R400 for a completely "shot" unit). I could not buy a pitman arm because they could not manage to remove one from a steering box. Those pitman arms just don't come off.
The modification involved cutting off the hardened ball on both the steering arm and pitman arm and drilling a 13mm hole through each arm to fit standard tie-rod ends.
The steering arm went quite easy. After drilling a 13mm hole a needed to taper the one end slightly for the rod end to fit snugly.
The pitman arm was a completely different story. No matter how I tried, I could not remove the arm, not with heat or pullers. I finally removed the entire steering box. I managed to cut off the ball with great difficulty and then drilled a 10mm pilot hole without any problem. Trying to enlarge the hole to 13mm was another story. I was simply too hard. I eventually bought a Cobalt ? drill bit and even that battled but eventually it got through.
Putting everything back together again was quite simple. I fitted to tie-rods and connected them with a 14mm high tensile threaded bar. I will have a proper bar turned on a lathe later.
The angle works very well and clears everything very nicely. Both rod ends are now located on the opposite side of the standard setup."

Sorry about the picture quality:

You did it correctly in my opinion. With the original dragkink, (rather than tie-rod ball joints), you still have the ability to nip up the ball cups to take up play or to replace them when worn. With the tie-rod setup any small play due to wear translates into a lot more play at the steering-wheel and would mean to completely replace the rod ends. That would be my take on it, for what it's worth.

Good to know Andy. I always wondered why Toyota used such an intricate setup with the draglink, and not just balljoints on a tie rod. I thought the tie rod setup would have been an improvement. Guess the Japs know a thing or two

Yeah, I'm sure they did it that way for good reason ..... and when you consider it, there must be an awful amount of force exerted on those components, especially when you've got wide takkies and you're stationary and turn the wheel full lock to edge out of a parking or something.

Andrew

It makes sense now I did not realise the ball was a press fit, I was just picking up a socket underneath the lux I was working on on Saturday when I saw its draglink and it made me wonder...


Arthur (Hiluxman) has a such a setup ( I wonder if this is not actually his setup you saw there) the nice thing about his setup is that you can get your steering wheel straight without any hassles.

Andy

I actually thought that proper Balljoints would outlast the Toyota SFA's setup with those ball-cup thingies which I often considered to be the Achille's Heel of the SFA steering.

One other thing to ponder. (where are all the technical boffs, engineers etc) Would the more horizontal / in-line set-up as with the ball joint link above not create less bump steer as the suspension articulate heavy?

I actually thought that proper Balljoints would outlast the Toyota SFA's setup with those ball-cup thingies which I often considered to be the Achille's Heel of the SFA steering.

One would think so when you look at it, but consider how many times have you ever heard that someone had to replace a worn / buggered draglink .... not that often in my experience, not even the little nylon / neopreen cups require regular replacing, and another beauty is that it's greasable .... I think it's more robust and practical than it appears to be .... maybe the guys with the slit eyes behind the coke-bottle glasses know something that we're missing.

One other thing to ponder. (where are all the technical boffs, engineers etc) Would the more horizontal / in-line set-up as with the ball joint link above not create less bump steer as the suspension articulate heavy?

Maybe quite the opposite ..... I'm speculating on logic here, but if one looks at the two seperate arcs (spring hanger to axle vs pitman end to 'J' arm), they're not all that different, just the offsets vary. Then the drop angles between them are not that different either. Perhaps the travel distances and arcs under articulation are so closely compatible that it eliminates bump steer (again, the coke-bottle guys would have taken cognisance of this). If one inverts / alters components, you're going to interfere with these geometrics ..... I'd rather not. By moving the axle forward, you're doing just that, but, bending the draglink into a slightly 's' shape also shortens it and compensates, as well as re-establishing a clearance between the knuckle end and the U-bolts.
Unless I were to be 'educated' differently, were I to do a 35mm axle move, I'd do it the way Andrew did his, with one small difference .... I'd bend up the link first and then only cut and weld if neccesary to achieve the 35mm shorter length between the sockets. ...

Unless I were to be 'educated' differently, were I to do a 35mm axle move, I'd do it the way Andrew did his, with one small difference .... I'd bend up the link first and then only cut and weld if neccesary to achieve the 35mm shorter length between the sockets. ...

Andy, you see, my article and learning curve just saved you some work

I would also do it my way the second attempt (not cut first) the next time...

So, come on, you have the instructions now go move the axle :) :)

I know how to do it, Andrew, just no need for me to move it .... suspension was already raised 110mm and the front prop-shaft is close to it's limit on full extension. I had 31's on there which I've replaced with 30's .... just to drop it a little so that Swambo can get in and out easier .... (She's only 4' 9"). As it is I had to make a step for her! View
viewtopic.php?f=92&t=6721&hilit

Andy

Back to the draglink angle and coke bottel glasses oukies, remember they designed the suspension so that the drag link sits horizontal now oukies go and lift the suspension to the extreme and then guys start with cross over steering due the the bump steer they all the sudden have, maybe making the drag link (sound like a website for cross dressers) horizontal again would lessen the bumpsteer ??:? :?

But does it sit horizontal on a standard SFA? Perhaps I'm mistaken, but I seem to think it follows the same or similar rake (drop angle) as the leading half of the spring pack ... eish .... too early in the morning to be contemplating this again. Maybe after coffee and breakfast ...


"draglink = website for cross dressers" ... Nah boet, I wonder which of us really has the weird sense of humour!

Mud Dog wrote: "draglink = website for cross dressers" ... Nah boet, I wonder which of us really has the weird sense of humour!

Or a site for dagga junkies ... BTW you still a quiter? Siggies I mean

BenHur wrote:

Mud Dog wrote: "draglink = website for cross dressers" ... Nah boet, I wonder which of us really has the weird sense of humour!

Or a site for dagga junkies ... BTW you still a quiter? Siggies I mean

Now who's going off topic?
It lasted about 3 months, used to catch Swamb's sneaking a smoke every now and then, and despite my best efforts to encourage her to stick with the program, she started up again. I still battled on, but it was too much .... started by having the odd one here and there from her and in no time at all I was buying smokes again. At least I only go through half of what I did previously, and I have'nt shelved the idea just yet. Plan on giving it another go in the new year, once all the Dec exitement is over. So, in answer to your question, I am not a quitter, but that's because in my mind I have not quit the battle to stop. :|

hey man, you guys are smokin' an excelent technical thread off topic

Andrew, where are the action peekchaz you promised?????

Wana see your new upgrades in action!!!!

Sorry, no action shots only some stills ! viewtopic.php?f=2&t=520&start=20

Still trying to perfect being outside the Lux while I'm in it

I had my camera there but I was too busy guiding to think about photo's....next time I'll get a few action shots of the lux.

Gary, mechanically Andrew is a talented motorsport enthusiast. His line of work helps as well. This from his profile .....

Occupation: Engineering Manager
Interests: Motorsport, 4x4, Cars in general...

your lux is looking amazing sifu keep up the gud work and thank you once again for my shell helped me out alot

Hi Guys

I did my axle move this weekend, thanks to this wonderfull post, and my chat with Louis at megaworld, it went off smoothly. Just waiting for the propshaft to be lengthened this week.

Seems like my new 33 BF Muds with 10J rims will still catch the inside arch a little with full articulation and turning, but mostly it clears, so thats good.

Doing Rust de Winter this weekend, so Luxi seems ready for the challenge

Thanks Guys!

Did you just bend the std drag link without cutting it?

Nope

Ill take a picture and post it, but what I did was I cut it in half, then took 10mm x 60mm or 80mm flat bar, and cut 2 triangle shaped pieces, this way I drop the drag link by 80mm so the top part connecting to the steering box, and bottom part connecting to the diff steering arm, is running parralel and level, but its also now shorter by 35mm.

This eliminates bump steer, arm not touching anything it did after the 75mm lift, and i shortened it also. Works like a charm. 3 birds, 1 stone.

Thanks

Het dam n foto van Luxi met die groot wiele, en Toytjie nou met Luxi se ou swart wiele, en sy nuwe wiele

Nice!

Ek het myne eers gesny & 30mm korter gemaak en to die fout besef met die toetsrit. Het hom toe in press gebuig & voilla! Is eintlik nou so 10mm te kort. Ek's seker as mens die std een net so buig sal hy perfek wees. Myne moes ek 'n 90mm offset gee om parallel te wees met chassis.

Dis waar, as ons net voor die tyd geweet het, buig sou seker makliker gewees het. Dink my vere het wee bietjie gan le, die 80mm is hy ok, daai bietjie skuinste maak nie saak nie.

Na al my goed agter op gesit is, het die gat bietjie gaan le, het nou nog langer shackles bestel wat ek donderdag kry. Myne is nou centre 2 centre 140mm, maak nou 175mm. Sal hopelik die gat net wee in die lug sit wa hy hoort, en was voor die tent en so.

Hier is my drag link wat ek gemod het, werk mooi vir my

Dis 'n mod & 'n half daai, maar as dit werk dan werk dit.

Die "sny net en las weer" advies kom nogal van iemand wat dit self al gedoen het

Sien jy't net 5 lemme daar voor in die leaf packs, myne het nou ses in voor en die neus stamp effe meer maar hy voel baie beter op die pad, meer stabiel...
Moet ook sê ek het 'n winch voor op.

lol

Nee man die mod is eenvoudig, en vinnig met die regte tools. Hy werk soos n bom vi my.

Die leafs van my is lekker, hy articulate baie mooi. het rust de winter gery die naweek wee, nie eenkeer locker gebruik nie, als gery. net die 33" tyres nou trek die engine mors dood. sal moet kyk na n sterker engine. Soek die 4L V6 Toyota, dink hy sal mooi werk.

Ek het ok voor n Bumper en winch. Hys slap op die pad om draaie ja, ma ry soos n droom n obstacle.

I haven't done the measurements yet but has anyone considered merely heating up the appropriate sections of an original drag link and bending it into a shape similar to Sifu-lux's final product? With an axle shift and a suspension lift of a certain height you won't need to cut and weld at all. I am interested by whether or not the heat may reduce the strength of the metal...

Sifu-lux would you mind specifying the brand of 2K you used on your rims and whether or not it has held up well?

I can't remember what 2K it was. Maybe Durathane K / Plascon automotive?
It has held up very well over the last 8 years, no issues.

Found it in my costing sheet (excel file in this thread):
Plascon Acryline Thinners (1 Litre)
Plascon Acryline 2K Hardener (0.5 Litre)
Plascon Acryline 2K Black (1 Litre)

Tim86 wrote: ↑Tue May 09, 2017 1:42 pm I haven't done the measurements yet but has anyone considered merely heating up the appropriate sections of an original drag link and bending it into a shape similar to Sifu-lux's final product? With an axle shift and a suspension lift of a certain height you won't need to cut and weld at all. I am interested by whether or not the heat may reduce the strength of the metal...

I just bent mine, not that hard.

Hi Andrew, nice to see that you're still visiting here.