Prado 3.4 V6 in 2.7 Hilux

Discuss modifications on your late 1998 to 2005 IFS Hilux here.
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pietpetoors
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Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:16 pm

My trokkie is getting a heart transplant.

Nothing wrong with the 3RZ. I just decided it is time to stop being practical and go for a bit more power and some better sound.
At (hopefully) the same fuel consumtion I might as well have a bit more horses.

Bought an imported 5Vz from Engines and more in Harties. We will be fitting a KZ-TE gearbox as I want a bit lower revs than the 2.7 gearbox.

I aksed Hoppy to do the conversion for me as he has lots of experience and know all the pitfalls.

One thing I like so far is that he had a thick adaptor plate and special flywheel made in order to push the engine 40mm forward. That helps to get the engine away from the firewall, get the viscous fan closer to the radiator and helps that one do not have to move your gearbox. Because Gearbox stays where it should be there are no mods to propshafts and gear stick remain where they should be.

The engine was lowered into position last week Friday, so I am eagerly awaiting more updates.
5vz-in-3rz (1).jpg
Special flywheel
5vz-in-3rz (2).jpg
Engine in trokkie
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5vz-in-3rz (2).jpg
Special flywheel and adaptor plate
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots
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Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:23 pm

:thumbup:

Nice one Pieter.
Please don't make too much noise with the new beast to chase away the stumpnose in the lagoon :D:
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Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:33 pm

Ek dink dit gaan nou 'n uitstekende ombouing/kombinasie wees hierdie. Hou ons asseblief op hoogte.
Last edited by Mars on Mon Jul 02, 2018 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:38 pm

Die V6 is 'n goeie ombouing. Ek glo die tipe engin moes in Sa verkoop gewees het op die Ifs. Amerika se ouens ken die V6 goed in die Hiluxes.
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Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:45 pm

Jip, daai trokkie het in Australia so van fabriek gekom met die 5vz, in 'n tyd toe Toyota die enigste dubbelkajuit trokkie op die RSA mark was sonder 'n V6.
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Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:02 pm

Lekker Pieter! :thumbup:
What was the cost of the motor and did they supply the original ECU with it? I'm still battling with the Essex V6 in SifuLux (cam and lifters) so the 5VZ option is not too far from my mind.
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pietpetoors
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Mon Jul 02, 2018 6:59 pm

I paid R16,000.00 for the engine plus R1250 courier fee.

I could get a engine on Gumtree for as low as R13k, but I went for Engines and More because the owner told me that he goes to Japan himself to select his engines and he always look for engines with less than 100k km.

ECU not included. We will go with a Dictator as it is the simplest option. Because there is no auto box involved it is straight forward to hook up the ECU.

Carlo from Modjects in Brackenfell hooked up the Dictator and started the engine before it went to Hoppy.

These engines were expensive and scares but they are becoming more available and cheaper. I know it is not a modern engine but I believe it is a simple and reliable engine which is what I am looking for.
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Mon Jul 02, 2018 7:59 pm

Looking forward to following your progress, Pieter! Think you will end up with a near-perfect combo and if anything probably even better fuel consumption - depending on the weight of your right foot, naturally :thumbup:


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Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:11 pm

depending on the weight of your right foo
Ja, it is strange how the weight of your right foot is influenced by the sound which enters your right ear.

The deeper the growl, the less the control is.
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Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:25 pm

Looking forward to seeing the finished conversion, Pieter. Is the Dictator a Sequential Injection unit that fires the injectors independently?? This will be important as the engine is a Sequential Multiport Fuel Injection design.

I am not thinking you will be gaining fuel consumption as that noise is something to enjoy with the Manual gearbox and even the most modest driver will sometimes just foot it for that sound and pleasure.
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pietpetoors
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Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:05 pm

The engine was fitted, engine mountings manufactured, BUT there is not enough space for the sump.

So Allen manufactured a sump. The sump must be able to take at least 5 liters since there is about 3.5 liters in circulation while the engine is running.

They will also change the oil pickup to fit in the bottom of the sump.

The first pics are where they manufacture the sump and the last is the heat treatment phase.

I think with this setup the oil pickup will always get oil, no matter what angle the vehicle is climbing.
sump1.jpg
5vz modified sump
sump3.jpg
5vz modified sump
sump2.jpg
5vz modified sump
sump4.jpg
5vz modified sump
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots
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Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:55 pm

Looks like it should work just fine. Don't see a drain plug?
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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
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Fri Jul 13, 2018 6:46 am

Don't see a drain plug?
Toyotas don't consume oil, once it is in, it stays there.

The beauty is that the drain plug can now be added to an easy to reach position.
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots
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Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:23 am

Can you elaborate on the heat treatment Pieter - is it done to relieve stresses in the metal due to welding?
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Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:11 am

Yes, release stress to prevent cracking of welds and warping. It was welded onto the table when they welded it and when they did the heat treatment.
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Fri Jul 13, 2018 8:20 am

Ah, I see there. Very impressive!
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Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:58 pm

Hi Pieter, any feedback with your hilux, have you got it back?
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Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:16 pm

Everything is in, management system is in and engine started. Only dash have to be put back.

On Tuesday Hoppy said he will himself install the dash on Tuesday because he wants to make sure there are no rattles.
We agreed that I can fetch the vehicle today.

When I got there today the dash was still laying on the ground.
Aircon pipes not connected yet.
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots
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Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:55 pm

Eish, I hope it will be ready by then, I would prefer to have it for a few days before a long trip, just to put some Kilos on to see if there are any little snags.
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Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:48 pm

Me too, that is why I wanted it today.
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Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:35 pm

pietpetoors wrote:
Mon Jul 02, 2018 2:45 pm
Jip, daai trokkie het in Australia so van fabriek gekom met die 5vz, in 'n tyd toe Toyota die enigste dubbelkajuit trokkie op die RSA mark was sonder 'n V6.
Ja, daai tyd het Toysa te vertelle dat die V6 en die steering rack in mekaar se pad sal wees...
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Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:42 pm

Die steering rack is geen Issue nie.

Ai Pieter. Daai Hilux dink ek sal lekker loop.

Hoppy sal sy gat moet roer. :surrender: :subscribed:
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Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:53 pm

Hi

Pieter hoe ry daai V6.? :think:
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Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:51 pm

Nog nie vandag iets gehoor nie. GIster was die dash amper heel in en aircon pype was gebou en in. Wag nog om vandag se terugvoer te kry.
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Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:07 pm

George and I went to fetch my Hilux after work today and got back hom at 21h00

There are still small things to sort out. The rev counter reads double the speed, so Allen disconnected it. The speedo is out by 20 km/h but before I do something about it I first want to see what revs it runs at 120 km/h. Apparently there is something different between the KZ gearbox and 2.7's electronics, so the ABS light and 4x4 light does not work correctly, that is a minor.
Strangely the brand new Sachs Clutch kit I bought have a release bearing which screems like a pig. All the other things on the list are ok, but the noise of the release bearing is really bad.

From Brackenfell to Langebaan is 144 km. We used the Auris's GPS tracker to measure the distance. I tried to keep on true 120 km/h most of the time (140 on the clock) and I managed to get 6.8 km/l

While driving at speed the engine is far quieter than the old 3RZ, you hardly hear it. What I do like is when you pull away you hear the engine loud and clear.

The power is awesome. There are some steep hills on the road we took. Nether did I need to gear down and even when I overtook a truck doing 80, I just put my foot down in 5th and it pulled like a steam train.

The hill outside Hopefield I always had to do in 4th with the 3RZ. Tonight I slowed to 80 before the hill and then just put foot in 5th, did not even accalerated all the way, and half way up the hill I was already doing 120, in 5th.

Besides the small things that still need to be sorted out, so far, it is exactly what I had in mind. Lots of low end power and a slightly better fuel consumption.

Tomorrow I pack and Saturday we are off to the Kgalagadi
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots
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Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:40 am

There are always niggles with a conversion, but that release bearing worries me, especially that you're going to be doing a long trip to a fairly remote area.
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
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Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:00 am

Luckily release bearing only works when you apply the clutch, the longer the distance the less it works.
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Fri Oct 26, 2018 8:13 am

Understand all that, but it still needs to work, so I wish you the very best that luck has to offer. :D:
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
Mars
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Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:52 am

Its great to hear such great feedback. I always knew that would be an absolutely awesome conversion. I take it that the thrust bearing only screams when you depress the clutch? The only reason I can think of is that the bearing was never properly lubricated on assembly. Drive it and see if it does not quieten down.
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Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:30 pm

Thank you Mars, a couple of guys now said sometimes the noise goes away. Will see after the trip if the noise is still there. If it is there we will replace the thrust bearing.
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots
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Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:07 pm

Some Feedback:
The release bearing noise did not go away and we replaced it with an OEM Toyota bearing yesterday. It is now perfect.

So we did our trip to the Kalahari and after about 3,000 km we arrived back safely.

On our way there, just 40 Km from Langebaan I heard a knocking sound in front. Almost sounded like a loose crank pulley.
Stopped in Klawer and removed bash plate to see if crank pulley was tight and it was.
Decided to continue. At Van Rhyns Pass we used the aircon for the first time and I realised the knocking sound is less.
So I stopped and checked the tensioner pulley and YES, it was gone. Strange thing is it can move in and out which caused the knocking sound, but if you turn the bearing it is silent and runs smoothly. I could not get the pulley off and since it only runs the air con I took the side cutter and cut it off.

Besides the heat, the rest of the trip went well.

Speedo is out by exactly 30 km/h compared to GPS speed.

At GPS 120 km/h I again managed to get 6.8 km/l
We did a 250 km gravel road between Molopo Lodge and Keimoes, via Noenieput, speed was between 70 and 90 and I managed to get 8 km/l

Rev count is not working yet, it is reading too fast so we need to convert the signal 3:2

Even in 42 degrees driving Kalahari dunes, the temperature needle stayed just below the half mark. It never lifted.

Fuel consumption a bit better, but power much more.

I mos changed the gearbox to a KZ box because I wanted lower revs. I obviously did not do my homework since the revs turn out to be almost the same as on the 2.7 box. Seems like the big difference on a KZ is the diff ratios.
At GPS 120km/h she is running 3200 rpm. I decided to leave it like that because when fully loaded and on holiday my speed is GPS 115 km/h which was 125 km/h with the original setup.
But changing the box to a KZ box was not a waste of money. The KZ box's gear are more evenly spaced. The original 2.7 Box has a huge gap between 3rd and 4th, with the KZ it is not that big.

Long uphills are no more a problem, I hardly ever have to gear down.

I am very happy with the conversion. I will take more pictures later on. In the engine bay there is about 120mm space on each side of the engine. The engine is not touching anything.
Because of the 40mm adaptor plate there is more than enough space for the exhaust. The cross member and gearbox sits at their original positions, thus we did not have to modify and propshafts.
The oil filter is open and easy to get to, the alternator and starter are both open and very easy to get to.

In front there is plenty of space between the engine and the radiator, changing timing belts and water pump will be very easy.
I think there is more space to work on the engine now than what was on the 3RZ.

What I like most is the silence. It idles so silently that I sometimes think the engine died, but then it is still running. What is awesome is that when you trap it, it has a beautiful deep rumble and is not as silent anymore. Even the open road the engine runs quieter than the 3RZ did.

I still have to find a proper air intake pipe, the flexi pipe is temporary solution.
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5vz in IFS Hilux
Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow!
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots
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JohanM
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Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:32 pm

Pieter you should try and source a prado intake pipe as they should be able to fit easy seeing that the air cleaner and length of air filter to intake looks almost identical to my old Prado.


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pietpetoors
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:59 am

Thanx Johan, will do
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots
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Mud Dog
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Vehicle: '90 SFA Hilux DC 4X4, Full OME, 110mm lift. Brospeed branch, 50mm ss freeflow exhaust. 30 x 9.5 Discoverer S/T's on Viper mags. L/R tank. (AWOL) '98 LTD 2.4 SFA, dual battery system. Dobinson suspension, LR tanks, 31" BF mud's.
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Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:36 am

Happy to hear that you are home safe. Thanks for the feedback, interesting. The 5VZ is still one of my favourite motors, it's just getting the drive train and gearing right and sorting all the conversion issues like speedo and rev counter. It's issues like this that were the only deterrent that caused my decision to sort the Essex V6 issues rather than fit a 5VZ.

Enjoy it, It's as tough and reliable as the 3RZ.
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:26 pm

Speedo has been sorted.
Francis @ Vehicle Monitoring & Audio in Bonteheuwel built me a little transfer case with the correct gear ratio.

I just gave him the GPS and clock speed and he took the closest match gears he had.

I am under reading a bit now which is good, then the misses won't complain about the speed.

When running 100 clock speed the GPS speed is 103.8 km/h

His details available at http://www.tachotrac.co.za/contact_us_1.html
speedo-correction (1).jpg
Speedo correction box
speedo-correction (3).jpg
Speedo correction box
Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow!
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots
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Real Name: Andy
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Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:42 pm

That's awesome! Never knew that you could even get little corrective gearing boxes like that - you live and learn. By the look of it you still have the option of a direct drive connection as well. Is there any maintenance recommendation like having to open and lube the gears?
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
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Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:34 pm

Got the Rev counter to read correctly tonight.

I used one of these Universal Tach Adaptors from eBay. (Got extra one if somebody need one)

Once I figured it out it was very simple. The Tach adaptor came with very good instructions. You can use it either coil driven or wasted spark vehicles and with a dip switch you can convert it from 4 cyl tach to 6 or 8 cylinder.

I wired the converter into line 4 of the Dictator and borrowed 12V dc from line 8 which is only on when ignition is on. Earthed it to the body.
tacho-dictator.JPG
Wire Tach adaptor into Dictator
tach-adpator-dictator.jpg
Tach Adaptor wired into Dictator
Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow!
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots
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Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:47 pm

Several people asked what the cost was.

It is difficult to give exact figure because I had some other work done as well, like replacing all belts and tensioners, replacing crank oil seals, fixing heater radiator, etc.

Here are some basics and note that you can also do it with the 3RZ box, then you save on the box and the correction box.
Engine = R16k
KZ Gearbox = R14k
Adaptor plate and flywheel = R7k
New KZ clutch = R4k
Fitment of engine and engine management = R21k includes exhaust and aircon.
Dictator = R3600.00
NEW KZ Radiator = R1k (guess)
Speedo correction = R1250
Rev counter correction = R1200
= R67,450

Will hopefully be selling 3RZ for R25k en gearbox for R5k which will bring the total out of pocket to R37,450
Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow!
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots
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Real Name: Andy
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Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:27 pm

R37½ K for an engine conversion is really not bad at all. Nice going! :thumbup:
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
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JohanM
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Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:36 am

Very neatly done Pieter!!

I was just wondering why did you go for the dictator setup on this engine? On this engine which is a sequential multiport fuel injection system, one should be able to use more "tuneable " software to optimize the effeciency and improve the fuel consumption and allround effect of the engine even more.

The interpollation of the Dictator is quite wide and not that accurate, as which I saw with my modified 4Y on the dyno, we had to settle to tune it in certain ranges close to optimal and other load / engine speed ranges it was not even close to the ideal mark and trying to fix that was not possible due to the wide interpollation of the mapping of the dictator not able to do the finer calculations.

Bearing in mind that you have a manual gearbox, smaller frontal area and selectable 4wd with a lighter body than the 90 series Prado, your Hilux should be able to easy reach +/- 7.5km/l on 120 loaded on the trip like you was.

The 6.8km/l you got is equal to me towing the loaded trailer with a load in the back last year with the Prado so thus my thinking the ecu can be the cause of not optimal fuel consumption from this conversion as yet. It is not a big difference but I am sure there is room for improvement.
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pietpetoors
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Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:29 pm

I went for the Dictator because it is simpler, use less sensors, etc.

It has not been tuned yet. It was installed, a 5VZ standard map installed and we went on holiday.

Maybe one day I will get time to take it for tuning. I did play around with the timing and got rid of the ping. But I do not know what all the other settings are for so I do not want to krap where it is not heuking.
Only Dead Fish Go With The Flow!
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1999 Hilux 2.7i 4x4 Raider DC. Rear diff-lock, Red Peppor Bull Bar and rock sliders, 31" Cooper ST, Snorkel, Alu-Canopy, VHF Kirisun radio, West Coast Rust, Mikem Rear Suspension, Ball Joint Spacers in front, 25watt LED Spots
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