12V power outlet in loadbin

Modifications to any other vehicles or things which can benefit any of the other vehicles owners.
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GysC
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Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:50 pm

Good day everyone.
Did anyoune of you installed a 12V power outlet, those old cigarette lighter type, in the back of your loadbin to run a fridge or similar?
Where did you obtain the equipment and was it difficult?
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Obelix and Dogmatix
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Real Name: Quentin
Location: Allens Nek

Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:18 pm

Give Neil (thunder 02) a call at 4x4 direct boksburg branch he will be able to supply and advise you.
Rules are there to make you think before you break them!!!
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COMMON SENCE IS NOT A GIFT, IT IS A PUNISHMENT!! BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE IT!!!
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Knuppel
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Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:56 pm

Ja, advise is important with this one and I hope he does not supply you with a cigarette lighter socket or similar.
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Obelix and Dogmatix
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Real Name: Quentin
Location: Allens Nek

Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:13 pm

Neil prefers the hell a type sockets and they work fine
Rules are there to make you think before you break them!!!
God made man before
woman so as to give him time
to think of an answer
for her first question
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COMMON SENCE IS NOT A GIFT, IT IS A PUNISHMENT!! BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE IT!!!
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ChrisF
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Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:49 pm

Hello Gys.

WELKOM.


Die raad hierbo is spot on ! Gaan gesels met Niel. :thumbup:


Lees ook gerus hier om jou gedagtes so bietjie te verbreed .... :subscribed:

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=35752&p=427080&hil ... ng#p427080" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=37810&p=449853&hil ... ng#p449853" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

lekker speel :twisted: :twisted:
GysC
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Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:28 pm

Baie dankie vir almal se "raad" ek sal hom definitief kontak.
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Obelix and Dogmatix
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Real Name: Quentin
Location: Allens Nek

Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:54 pm

Neil I want my commission please
Rules are there to make you think before you break them!!!
God made man before
woman so as to give him time
to think of an answer
for her first question
.
COMMON SENCE IS NOT A GIFT, IT IS A PUNISHMENT!! BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE IT!!!
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ChrisF
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Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:44 am

Obelix and Dogmatix wrote:Neil I want my commission please
hey, watchit ! You only get one third of the commission ... :twisted: :twisted: :tease:
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Obelix and Dogmatix
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Real Name: Quentin
Location: Allens Nek

Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:18 am

:aggresive: :boss: Se gat ek was eerste
Rules are there to make you think before you break them!!!
God made man before
woman so as to give him time
to think of an answer
for her first question
.
COMMON SENCE IS NOT A GIFT, IT IS A PUNISHMENT!! BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE IT!!!
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ChrisF
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Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:28 pm

Okay okay voor jy vir Asterix op my sit ....
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Obelix and Dogmatix
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Real Name: Quentin
Location: Allens Nek

Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:31 pm

Q
ChrisF wrote:Okay okay voor jy vir Asterix op my sit ....
:blackeye: :blushing:
Rules are there to make you think before you break them!!!
God made man before
woman so as to give him time
to think of an answer
for her first question
.
COMMON SENCE IS NOT A GIFT, IT IS A PUNISHMENT!! BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO DEAL WITH EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE IT!!!
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rjfddasilva
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Tue May 03, 2016 4:20 pm

I have installed 2 x power points with cigarette lighters bought from any spares shop. Remove rear tailights and drill a 19mm whole where it will miss the light frame (top corner) solder your joints and install a fuse. Run low voltage multistrand wire 4mm to your battery and install another fuse up front. Strap your cable along brake lines. I have had mine for 6 years and only replaced fuse once.

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Rusti
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Tue May 03, 2016 5:15 pm

I just removed the old connections from my battery to the bin.. The small multi strands were broken and it looked like a mess. Messy instillation.. Blew the cooler we had connected and think it may have been the cause of my battery being drained. Pls correct me if I'm wrong but I suspect that because of their bad state the connection was on off on off etc and drained battery making temporary contact the whole time? No fuse was previously installed either. Cig plug is burnt inside.

I think the wires were damaged from jump starting. Crocodile clips hooking them etc. Is there a secure and neat way of connecting to main battery cables rather than directly to the terminals? I want to start fitting spot lights too and also a light in the cab so I don't want to fit more ports to the terminals for every add on.

Can I link up to the main line under the upholstery?
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ChrisF
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Tue May 03, 2016 6:01 pm

Hi Duane, have a look at these threads -

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=35752&p=427080&hilit=power+for+camping#p427080

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=37810&p=449853&hilit=power+for+camping#p449853

many photos of how you can connect the wires safely and properly, also see how I finished it off neatly on the Ranger. No need for it to look like some backyard job....
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Knuppel
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Tue May 03, 2016 6:02 pm

rjfddasilva wrote:I have installed 2 x power points with cigarette lighters bought from any spares shop. Remove rear tailights and drill a 19mm whole where it will miss the light frame (top corner) solder your joints and install a fuse. Run low voltage multistrand wire 4mm to your battery and install another fuse up front. Strap your cable along brake lines. I have had mine for 6 years and only replaced fuse once.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

What do you run off your lighter sockets?
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rjfddasilva
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Tue May 03, 2016 6:09 pm

1 x arb 89 l fridge 1 x 55 l engle fride and at night spot light for canopy.
I did my own dual batt. Just installed boat battery box with a hand on/off switch from truck spare shop to isolate car batt from sockets when im in very remote places. Second batt runs both fridges for 14 hrs. Durung that time when touring charges vack up again. Hilux alternator can handle continuous 23 A.

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Rusti
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Tue May 03, 2016 9:49 pm

ChrisF wrote:Hi Duane, have a look at these threads -

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=35752&p=427080&hilit=power+for+camping#p427080

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=37810&p=449853&hilit=power+for+camping#p449853

many photos of how you can connect the wires safely and properly, also see how I finished it off neatly on the Ranger. No need for it to look like some backyard job....
Thanks Chris. Lots of photos. That's exactly what I need.. :siffler: :surrender:
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ChrisF
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Wed May 04, 2016 6:22 am

enjoy the journey ... :)
Rusti
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Wed May 04, 2016 12:25 pm

Chris from having looked at your Ranger project I suspect that my wires may have been too thin for a cooler? And or the damaged wiring..

I understand that if I want to put a fridge, microwave etc at the back that I will have to have a large cable to handle the draw from the appliances but for now I just want to run the 2 sets of spots and the cab light. Do I need to run a new cable from the battery to the back and feed off of that or can the standard bakkie main line of wires handle the additional lights?

Im going to do a 2nd battery system to run off solar at a later stage so Ill move the cab light onto that then.
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ChrisF
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Wed May 04, 2016 1:06 pm

Duane many ways to approach this ....

voltage drop - starting with only 13V you really have to keep the voltage drop as low as possible !!! TWO ways to do this - thicker wires, and make SURE your connections are top quality, the thickest cable is worthless with bad connections !

Current carrying capacity - there are tables for this, but are to be cross checked to the voltage drop. Basically the heaviest load should be when you are charging the second battery from the alternator, ie 20A. You really should not be drawing more than 10A from a battery for long periods .... now THIS statement should get some interesting replies.....

TWO fridges and a LOT of LED's would hardly get you past 10A.

Compressor surely pushes up the amps, but for a short time period.

We are talking of inverters before you get to heavy amps .... Using even a small inverter for a small laptop puts a LOT of strain on a battery !! If are going to do this, consider doing this while driving, or while in peak sun, thus the bulk of the power does not come from the battery.


SO, back to your question - the size of the wire required from front to back -

Option 1 - without a dc-dc charger - THICK cables, and even then you will get stuck when traveling more than a week in very hot weather. YES, it does work for the typical long weekend trip.

Option 2 - WITH a dc-2-dc charger - now your charging current is limited to either 12, 20 or 30A. Mathematically a 4mm wire is sufficient, but you will find the charger suppliers ask for a 6mm wire. Cheap enough, and still very easy to work with. Thus I now only use the 6mm wire in these installations.

Option 3 - Running your load in the back, with your battery in the front ... A 6mm wire will still do the job for the fridges and LED lights. But the inverter will push this system ...
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Thu May 05, 2016 8:45 am

Hi Chris.

Forgive me if I sound stupid but your response was a bit above my electrical skill set or lack there of..

Keeping in mind that a 2nd battery and fridge etc will only come in a year or so.

So focusing on the lights only for now. Basically if i want to connect to the bakkies standard wiring i need to check the current carrying capacity tables for my bakkies wiring system and compare that to what the lights will draw. Or i stand a chance of blowing fuses every time i put the spots on? So its probably best to leave the standard wiring alone and just fit a new 6mm line to the cab for the cab light and to then feed the spots off that too.
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Knuppel
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Thu May 05, 2016 10:41 am

It is best to leave the standard wiring standard yes!

Nowadays wire is not sold as 6mm or 4mm it is sold in "mm²"
The size you are looking for that you later use to charge batteries with is 16mm²
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Thu May 05, 2016 11:09 am

Awesome! Thanks.

I'm going to head out to 4x4 direct in the next week or 2 so I'm sure they will give me more advice on the process as well.
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ChrisF
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Thu May 05, 2016 6:22 pm

Knuppel wrote:It is best to leave the standard wiring standard yes!

Nowadays wire is not sold as 6mm or 4mm it is sold in "mm²"
The size you are looking for that you later use to charge batteries with is 16mm²
Yes, I should have added the "square".


Thus I am recommending a 6mm square wire for the following application:
- running a fridge or two at the back
- powering the LED lights at the back
- this would be perfect to later supply power to a dc-2-dc charger.

The only reason you would need a 16mm square wire - IF you want to charge a battery at the back without a dc-2-dc charger. And even then this is still a BAD idea ! :naah:
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Knuppel
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Thu May 05, 2016 8:35 pm

I do not agree with you :D:
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ChrisF
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Fri May 06, 2016 6:35 am

Knuppel wrote:I do not agree with you :D:
and the wires in Elders are 25mm square ... :o:


For many many years we simply had to over size cables for use in 4x4's - purely because we did not have dc-2-dc chargers.


Some specs on the 6mm square wire, from SANS10142
table 6,2(a) - 34A current carrying capacity - these tables are for continuous, and the 6mm squared wire can handle higher current for "short" periods - for longer than a battery can supply.
46A for the 10mm squared wire
61A for the 16mm squared wire

The corresponding volt drop is given as 7,3mV/A/m.
Two fridges and a couple of LED lights wont draw more than 10A
Let's work with a 5m distance between the two batteries - NOTE, this table includes for the return run wire

Volt drop = 0,0073 x 10 x 5 = 0,365 V

By comparison the 16mm square wire values are given as 2,8mV/A/m
Volt drop = 0,0028 x 10 x 5 = 0,14 V


Thus there IS an argument to be made FOR the use of a 16mm square cable !!

For a short term installation with a dc-2-dc planned as the next step ... I would still go with the 6mm square wire
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Knuppel
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Fri May 06, 2016 12:03 pm

Chris, thanks for the calc.
It will also explain a lot to the cigarette lighter socket believers!

My reason for having 16mm² and if I could afford it then it would be 35mm² cable
I run a Dual / Triple battery system. I use a NL solenoid and have fuses as close as possible to all the batteries.
I tow a caravan. I have 300 amp BH sockets on all ends of the cables
I have a very versatile system that would not work if i used a DC charger.
I can run my vehicle on a single battery with a fridge inside, not ideal but for a day trip its perfect.
I can add a battery and I add it in the rear. Then it works perfect for the long weekend type trip.
If I hook the caravan it automatically becomes a Triple battery system. When parked I can then either leave my extra battery with the vehicle or leave it with the caravan for extra capacity when there is no 220v supply. I can even charge the caravan battery from the vehicle by simply plugging it in the the BH connector
I can jump start the vehicle, if need be, from the battery in the rear or even from the caravans battery.

I have had a long hard look at the DC chargers but I would loose my versatility should I go that route. I have never run out of battery power. I also have the odd solar panel that I connect should the need arise.

Regarding wiring for fridges. My second 12v compressor fridge I bought had some advice stuck to it on a small sticker. It stated. " For every meter of wire the fridge is away from the battery the cable thickness should be increased by 1mm in thickness to avoid damage to the processor". Had I received that info with fridge number one I would not have needed to buy fridge number two!!! I have seen so many fridges fail due to incorrect wiring its not even funny. And lighter sockets are made for lighters and other than that they are the most unreliable electrical connection around.
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Stef
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Fri May 06, 2016 12:29 pm

I can top that...50mm2 cables between batteries :mrgreen: Think one of the previous owners did it that way due to the NL system having a winch override. one cloud have both batteries in parallel when winching.

I've described my setup on another thread , but in the same boat as you Marius, I have an off road trailer also with a battery.

Ideally one should have 2 x D250S chargers, one for the batt in the back and one for the trailer/caravan. Which means both batt #2 and #3 can be charged from the alternator or solar; and you just gooi the SP in the bakkie on a weekend trip.

But getting back to Gys' setup, I would suggest a 6mm2 cable either from the primary battery directly or from an unused position in the fuse box in engine bay running to the bin terminating into a Hella or BH socket or even both
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ChrisF
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Fri May 06, 2016 5:21 pm

Marius you may well benefit from a "battery box" for the second battery - keep those thick cables, handy for various reasons .... As I said Elders also has the thick cables - winch could be fitted front or rear ...

With the battery box you can then set it up easily enough with a couple of brad harisons to have the option of a DC-2-DC charger for a nice quick and safe charge while driving. And still have the front battery and alternator for the winch etc etc ....
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