2.4 to 2.7 conversion

Vlakvark · Post by **Vlakvark** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:26 pm

Hi
I am new to this forum and looking for some advice. I have a 1998 Hilux 2.4 D/C 4x4 LTD that I mainly use for home/work/home and overlanding. Fitted most of whats needed (long range tank, water tank, double roofrack, drawer system, duel battery, bro-speed, powerflow by SAC's, build in my own compressor) over the last couple of years. I am very happy with my "bakkie" and currently considering the following: Fitting a snorkel and converting to fuel injection. This is where I need help! Fitting a snokel looks like a fearly strate forward job, but what make/model??? I have heard of, and read the articals on this forum obout upgrading to 2.7 or bigger. Please advice on the best opsion (2.7, 3.0 ???) I am concerned about overheating and snapping side shafts. Please advice.

legend35 · Post by **legend35** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 4:20 pm

Welkom to the forum Christo.a 2.7 is a very nice and powerfull engin byt fuel consumption is not that good,and.When you buy a 2.7.be prepair for 6.5 to 7.0km/l.

Vlakvark · Post by **Vlakvark** » Sun Jun 08, 2008 5:07 pm

My current consumption is between 6 and 6.5 km/l. The main frustration is not been able to pass another vehicle at 110 - 120Km.

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:43 am

Christo. Why dont you just do an EFI job on that 2.4? That should cost less than a 2.7 engine conversion and give you better fuel consumption and increase performance. The added bonus is that you save at least some resale value as you are not building a heavily converted vehicle

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:15 am

Christo ek oorweeg self die conversion met die 2.7 3RZ enjin maar die enjins is nog baie duur.

Ek glo as mens die enjin net bietjie goedkoper kan kry dan sal dit meer ekonomies wees. Op die staduim het ek pryse gekry vanaf R13 000 tot R23 000 vir enjins. Dan moet die ding nog oorgebou word en probleempies uitgesort raak.

Op die ou end van die dag spandeer jy +/- R30 000.

Die vraag wat ek myself vra is wat is die beste om te doen. 1. Spandeer die geld en jy trou met jou Hi lux want jy sal nooit weer jou geld terug kry nie...

2. Verkoop die hi lux en vat die geld van die enjin en koop 'n goeie 2nd hand land cruiser of 'n 2.7 Hi lux :?
3. Leef met die swak pertrol verbruik en krag lewering saam en jy weet ten minste jy sal probleem vry die wereld kan aanpak

Ek sukkel om my mind op te maak maar my g@t jeuk ook vir daai ekstra oemph!!!

Vlakvark · Post by **Vlakvark** » Mon Jun 09, 2008 5:18 pm

Kaspaas/Knersus
I must admit I have not considered converting my 2.4 to EFI. Do you have any stats available with reference to performance and economy? The current indication is +/- R30K for a 2.7 labor included. Any indication on who can do and what it will cost do the EFI on the current 2.4???? Anyone in the Cape doing this???

I would love to upgrade to a cruiser but for the price and the consumption is currently not an option. I love the solid from suspension and the articulation I get with it + I know what I have with my current Hi lux, think I will stick with it. Just need some more horses!

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:21 pm

Well Vlakvark I do not know how do you get between 6 and 6.5 km/l as I will be happy to get that on my Hi lux. :evil: Anyway I think the extra horses will be so lekker.

but the price v/s the power seems to be the problem.

Vlakvark · Post by **Vlakvark** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:00 pm

What kind of consumption and top speed do you get Knersus? Have you done any mods? My consumption is based on tar @ 100 - 120km/hr avg. It drops down to between 5 and 5.5 in 4x4 and sand driving.

When I bought the bakkie four years a go it was dead as a turtle and I struggled to get 110km/hr. I have cines fitted a bro-speed and had it power flowed by SACâ€™s (not sure if that made too much of a difference). I also had the carb serviced and the replaced the jets. That increased top speed to 130, maybe 140 on a good day with a tail wind. However the engine is still sluggish and not as responsive as my previous Hi Lux.

My previous Hi Lux was a 2.2 with a 22R refit, run off the clock, very responsive but tend to over heat in long stretches of loose sand or low range driving. Not sure what was done to that engine as I bought it is. Eventually the body rusted away and I moved on to my current "baby".

Hoppy · Post by **Hoppy** » Tue Jun 10, 2008 10:49 pm

The 3rz 2.7 conversion is the easiest and most reliable conversion you can do, all the parts exept the mountings are off the shelf, it can be fitted with an aftermarket EFI system or a carburettor, we have done both a few times, i prefer the carb for reliability and cost( about R7000.00 less).
You can contact me on 0721291160 or 021 9828232

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 8:55 am

Vlakvark you can not complain about consumption. :? My bakkie give's me 5.3km/l on the open road 115-120km/h but as soon as I hummer it a bit to 140-150 it give's 5.8km/l :? I am really confused by this. The mods done on the bakkie is also bro speed and the head and intake was flown with bigger intake valve's and the cam was aslo worked on

It give's that extra oumph as it goes to 160km/h eazy but the consumption is killing me when I try to drive for economy consumption. I guess the consumption in the Namib dune's last year was round about 3-3.5km/l. So I thought about the change of the engine's... Lexus V8; 7MGE and the 3 RZ 2.7 and the fuel injection conversion on the 22R. I would realy want to go for the 2.7 but the price of this engine is still to high. I guess I will consider the fuel injection as well but I am not sure if there will be that much difference.

Vlakvark · Post by **Vlakvark** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 6:25 pm

Thanks Hoppy
Will give you a ring to discuss options.
Well Knersus, sounds like you got at least some horse from you upgrades. Good luck with the chase, will keep you posted

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 6:54 am

You dont have to worry about breaking sideshafts unless you have the Gearmax axel in the back.

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 8:05 am

This weekend made me think again about the 2.7 :? I was driving from Upington to the Gemsbok park and filled up at the Molopo lodge. The bakkie gave me 4.5km/h and this is madness for a 2.4. :evil:

Anyway be warned if you ever go to the park not to fill up at the Molopo lodge 60km from the park. Their petrol price were R10.36/l

. The Tweerivier gate price were R10.00/l the same as in Upington.

Vlakvark · Post by **Vlakvark** » Tue Jun 17, 2008 7:17 pm

I am not sure what side shafts are in??? I know it is a standard 1997 2.4 limited addition. I must say my consumption never go that low on tar. I have fitted an extra 60L tank (only get 50l in) and getting on average 800km on 125l. I have made contact with Alan and will go see him shortly to discuss to way forward. I am just about convinced to go the 2.7 route. I would like to get some more opinions from guys that have done this conversion. (try to get all the pro and con's) Not sure if I should go 2.7 with EFI or Weber carb?? Any opinions, experiences on this???

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:06 am

Well I think I will go for the EFI should I do the conversion. Why bodder with a carb if you can have the EFI

Vlakvark · Post by **Vlakvark** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:14 am

According to Allan: Weber carb give better performance than EFI, easy to fix and adjust in bush or on safari in "Dark Africa", cheaper. On the negative it tends to "drain" on steep in or de-clines, stall. I would like to hear form any one that has gone EFI or carb please comment

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:25 am

The weber conversion surely is cheaper but I will stick to the EFI. How many 2.7 hi luxes had a problem with the EFI before........I believe this conversion will be the one that you will put in and forget about it. :!:

Post by **Family_Dog** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 12:08 pm

Vlakvark wrote:According to Allan: Weber carb give better performance than EFI, easy to fix and adjust in bush or on safari in "Dark Africa", cheaper. On the negative it tends to "drain" on steep in or de-clines, stall. I would like to hear form any one that has gone EFI or carb please comment

Christo, read the full sttory on Bulldog in the "Useful Articles" thread. First, I had the Chinese carb that was supplied with the new engine. Roughly 5km/litre, and not easy to rejet because the jet threads do not match South African jet threads. So I went the Weber way, 36DCDB Carb. Performance was good, we also played around slightly with the jets and performance improved. But consumption was only marginally better - around 5.5 - 5.6 km/litre. These measurements were taken with a mix between a bit of town driving (30%) and the rest on the open road, at speeds of 100 - 110km/hr.

The EFI conversion so far has given about 7.7km/l under the same conditions above, mixed town & country driving. Performance is way enhanced. The only problem now is that I have brutishly thick & heavy 31" Cooper STT tyres on, so performance & consumption will fall slightly once more but it still performs better than any other combination that I've had.

And yes, the Weber most definitely embarrasses you when attempting a steep incline. Forget it, it does not do it. :evil:

-F_D

3RZ · Post by **3RZ** » Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:45 pm

I see in the preview edition of the Junkmail that there is a 2.7 motor in tomorrow's JHB Junkmail. Tel no will be available tomorrow.

On Offer Johannesburg
TOYOTA HILUX 2.7 ENGINE COMPLETE: With computer R.7000 (Honeydew)
Honeydew R 7000 082-XXX-XXXX

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:17 am

Ja nee also see the thread were I am replacing Dawie's Weber with a Golf carb.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2937

Weber Carbs are crude and normally not synonymous with fuel economy. After fitting the Golf carb (untuned and without the vacuum pipes properly connected it) it already felt much more refined, the rawnness disappeared.

But on an engine designed to work with EFI I will never even consider fitting a Carb. Get the EFI management sorted properly and you will not be sorry.

Vlakvark · Post by **Vlakvark** » Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:08 pm

Thanks for the response. This is the kind of practical feedback I was looking for. Sounds like EFI is the way to go on the 2.7. Thanks for the heads-up on the engine but I am from Cape Town and not in too much of a hurry. I will be doing a trip to the US in September (away for three week) and intend having the conversion done in that time period. Any prompts on available engines before then will be appreciated.

Christian Kuun · Post by **Christian Kuun** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:56 am

Okay, I know I am 'jacking the thread a little but just want it in a nutshell.

I get the general feeling that the most economic and value-for-money way to increase performance and decrease consumption on a 22R engine is the EFI conversion (at about R7000)? I understand that this is better than a Carb/Weber conversion?

Stop me at any time and correct me if have anything wrong, please.

Why I am asking is because my wifes oldman just bought a '97 2.4 and is already toying with the idea of mounting a Weber or any other carb and I would like to go back to him with something substantial. We would prefer not to replace the engine as the vehicle immediately changes status and loses value.

Does anybody perhaps have any output (kW/nm) and consumption figures on such a conversion?

Input will be apreciated.

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:34 pm

Christian ek het 'n 38 Weber op my vorige 2.4 s/c gehad en al verskil was dat die ou nie dood getrek het teen 'n duin nie

en daar was so bietjie meer oemph.. maar petrol verbruik was maar dieselfde. Ek sal nie weer die Weber conversion doen nie.

Christian Kuun · Post by **Christian Kuun** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 2:19 pm

Knersus, Sal jy dit dan eerder standaard hou of eerder die EFi doen?

Vlakvark · Post by **Vlakvark** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 5:40 pm

Christian, I hear what you say regarding status and value. You need to ask yourself (or your farther in-law) is he happy with the performance and how long do he intend keeping the Lux. Based on the feedback received and some other discussions on the forum it sounds like doing the EFI conversion is the cheaper way to go but parts are hard to come by and I am not so sure every mechanic can work on and tune it properly, as it is not a standard feature. Going the 2.7 way is more expensive but the proven and more reliable option with benefits on both fuel consumption and power.

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:10 pm

Ek sal EFI verkies. Op die staduim kan ek 'n 3RZ kry met bell housing vir my bakie vir R17 000. Dan moet ek nog die EFI management stelsel ook kry wat sekerlik rondom R4 500-00 sal wees. Dan moet die ding nog inkom met ander radiator sekerlik nog 'n klomp geld...

Ek is moedeloos oor die conversion se kostes en weet nie meer waarnatoe nie.

Moet ek die bakkie verkoop....Ek dalk 'n ding kry wat klaar lekker krag het.
Moet ek die huidige enjin dalk oordoen en weet ek is reg vir nog 300 000km en maar saamleef met min krag en petrol misbruik.
Moet ek die 3RZ insit teen baie $$$$ en lekker bakkie dan he

Ek kry sommer 'n gemoedsbek@kking.... :?

Scorpion · Post by **Scorpion** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 6:29 pm

Eben, moet nou nie so huil nie.

As jou motor nog nie opgery is nie, hoekom wil jy hom oordoen? Doen net die EFI as geld 'n bietjie knyp, anders gaan vir die 7MGE. Ek dink dit gaan goedkoper uitwerk as die 3RZ en dan het jy lekker krag, beter petrol verbruik en nog steeds die Toyota reliability... 8)

Hoppy · Post by **Hoppy** » Thu Jul 03, 2008 10:56 pm

Ons het 4 jaar gelede op n 2.4 brospeed motor n EFI conversion gedoen met n "Go Tech", dit was van die enigste systems beskikbaar, ons het 102KW uit hom gekry, maar hy was nog altyd onder 5km/l en ons moes hom gereeld stel.
Ons het ook n 2.7 ge "Go Tech", hy het ook onder 5km/l gegee, sy baas ry nou n Land Cruiser 4.5 en hy kry beter brandstof verbruik.
My hilux het n paar jaar met n 7mge en n "Go Tech" geloop, ek moes hom elke oggend van agter af bekruip en dan vinnig inspring en start, want as hy my sien dan start hy nie! Die dae wat hy lekker geloop het , het hy tot 7km/l gegee met 35" bande, maar die vrede het nooit lank gehou nie.
My persoonlike ondervinding van baie jare met "first generation" aftermarket EFI's is nie goed nie, maar ek hoor die mense is al meer tevrede met die nuwer weergawes, ek ry n hilux omdat hulle betroubaar is, so ek verkies Diesel, carb of OE injection.

Riceburner · Post by **Riceburner** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:14 am

my 32/36 Weber gives no stalling or flooding problems. I can climb steep inclines with my crawler gears and lockers, engine idles without a issue. Check your float level.

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:54 am

Hoppy wrote:My hilux het n paar jaar met n 7mge en n "Go Tech" geloop, ek moes hom elke oggend van agter af bekruip en dan vinnig inspring en start, want as hy my sien dan start hy nie! Die dae wat hy lekker geloop het , het hy tot 7km/l gegee met 35" bande, maar die vrede het nooit lank gehou nie.

MAAR daai Rattle&Humm Hilux moes jy nooit convert het nie. Toe jy die 7M-GTE ingesit het het jy die plot verloor... :roll: :roll: :roll:

Knersus · Post by **Knersus** » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:58 am

Wel manne ek het nou al die ding baie oorgedink en ek is bereid om R20 000 te betaal vir die conversion maar......aan die ander kant enige converted ding is altyd 'n probleem. Jy trou met hom en betaal onderhoud vir die res van jou lewe

Wel die verkoop idee is sekerlik nie my beste plan nie maar as ek die geld vir die conversion gaan vat en die bakkie verkoop kan ek 'n lekker 2nd hand 2.7 Hi lux alreeds koop.

Wat my pla van die 7MGE is die feit dat jou air con condensor nie pas nie en dat hitte faktor dalk 'n probleem kan wees. Die 3RZ is sekerlik die maklikste want alles pas en tot die wiscus fan kan inkom, maar dit is teen 'n prys?

My huidige enjin loop mooi maar ek hoor 'n effe piston slab in die oggende as hy koud is en dis sekerlik die grootste rede vir my idee om 'n verandering te doen en nou jeuk my g@t om dit te laat doen.

Nou ja klaar sad case stories vertel nou soek ek maar weer verder vir 'n 3RZ

Stephen · Post by **Stephen** » Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:03 pm

The "phone number" above replaced my 2.2 with 2.7 in 2008. Best move ever and was done proffesionally. Smooth and quiet engine. I had a 3 litre diesel radiator fitted few years back when original radiator gave the gost. No T problems.

Weber floods on an incline and stalls. Some say turn it around. This is a death wish as if you go down a sand dune and the rear sways out (it DOES), then you need a reliable engine to pull you straight or you WILL roll.

I dropped a valve in the Namib on the 4Y and it cost me R18 000 all in all. 4 years later it dropped a valve (4000rpm) again when I came from a wedding with family in the vehicles (stranded). I moved the 2.7 route. I did not opt for the EFI as doer and gone you can not repair it. (the High pressure fuels pumps do not last) Reason why I do not have an immobilizer. (heavy fight with my insurers though !!) You sit in nomansland with wife and can not move!!! Fitted a 2.4 carb and have 103 KW on tap (vs 79 on the 4Y with many unsucsessfull oemph upgrades and lost $). Play with chip and you get 120 ~ 130 KW but you strain the system. Regards Stephen Theron. Contact me with any questions. Willing to help. 072-302-6132. stheron@chevron.com

PS: Only gripe I have is the exhaust runs below, crossing the gearbox from right to left, as on all 2.7's. The heat radiated to the gearbox can not be good. Manne met dik brille se^ no problemo!!

Numbnut · Post by **Numbnut** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 1:10 pm

Hi Stephan

Are you still running the 2.7 motor and how is it's performance so far?
Any pro's & Cons you can share?

Thx

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:00 pm

We had a customer a couple of months ago who had a 3RZ engine fitted to his SFA. He had been using it like this for about two years with no problems at all and the total costs, including engine purchase and labour, came to around R27k at that time. The work was performed locally by a private Toyota mechanic. He was very happy with the results.

-F_D

Numbnut · Post by **Numbnut** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:09 pm

Did it set him back R27k two years ago?? Surely the price of this conversion must have gone down, even just
a little bit??

Does anyone know of someone in CPT or surrounding area that has done this PROFESSIONALLY??

Thx
Daniel

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:29 pm

It was done professionally, the Toy mechie has set up a workshop that is very busy indeed.

Your best bet would be to speak to Allan Venter, user-name Hoppy on this forum. He will no doubt be able to help you.

-F_D

Numbnut · Post by **Numbnut** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:39 pm

Thanx Eric

Will try and PM him as soon as I can to get more clarity on this issue! Need to start making a list of all the
things I need to start getting to prep for the engine swop! The more I do now and "stuff" I get, the quicker
and cheaper I beleive the conversion will be cause one thing I do have now is time!

Thx
Daniel

Post by **Family_Dog** » Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:12 pm

Daniel, this is probably the only engine I would ever use in Bulldog. Believe me, had I not done the EFI conversion - which is very meaningful in itself - this is the way I would have gone by now. Unfortunately, now I'll have to wait until my new 4Y with EFI wears out first before I can even think about it.

-F_D

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:58 am

Family_Dog wrote:Daniel, this is probably the only engine I would ever use in Bulldog. Believe me, had I not done the EFI conversion - which is very meaningful in itself - this is the way I would have gone by now. Unfortunately, now I'll have to wait until my new 4Y with EFI wears out first before I can even think about it.

-F_D

Dont worry by the time that engine is kapoet Bulldog will be parked at my place and I will come pick you up in it once a month from the old age home to go do your monthly pharmacy round and grocery shopping

Post by **Family_Dog** » Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:42 pm

Bennie, with friends like you....

So in other words we should do the engine swap tyhis weekend while I still have Bulldog...

-F_D

rock solid · Post by **rock solid** » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:38 am

Ive done 2 3rz swaps, one in my 1990 4runner(surf), and another in a freinds 1984 hilux
ive never heard of carb'ing them. fuel injection is the way to go.
if u have any questions, or need any pics, feel free to ask.