suitable swap for a 4y

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Tinman
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suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Tinman »

hey guys
im sure uv probably seen that iv had to do some work on my engine, im looking for an engine swap eith to a 4y or something that doesnt require having to take it over the pits, so any engine that came stock in a hilux , i was thinking maybe the 22r(maybe efi or turbo), and a mate even sugested the 2rz, the 4y has been good but i am looking for a bit more power so maybe even a new 4y and a custom efi conversion,
a friend of my dads has an import cruiser thats got either a 22r or a 20r in it that not running, i was thinking of getting that and dooing a full complete rebuild. just wondering wat u guys recon and previous experiences :mrgreen:
Dadz Toy BFI

Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Dadz Toy BFI »

I love my 4YEFi but if you want a really nice motor the 2.7i 3RZ-FE is the way to go mate :thumbup:

Have a look at this thread

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5309

Best of luck man :!: :P
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Family_Dog »

Rich, your new Avatar does it for me!

Can't wait for the Sunday Times to come out so I can read more about your adventures... :mrgreen:


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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Dadz Toy BFI »

Family_Dog wrote:Rich, your new Avatar does it for me!

Can't wait for the Sunday Times to come out so I can read more about your adventures... :mrgreen:


-F_D
you got me FD :lol: :lol: :clap:
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Tinman »

the lisencing dept say the 3rz would have to go over the pits but the 22r(carby efi or turbo) would be fine and doesnt have to go over the pits, whats it like going from 22r to 4y? i take it new bellhousing.
also the 22r engine would be one that i strip down and fully rebuild up, with forged everything so as i can turbo later on for that extra kick :mrgreen:
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Mr_B »

Rather soop up a 4Y, than go with the 22R, the guys around here have better results with the 4Y when doing performance mods!

The wikipedia data on the 22R:

22R
The 2-valve SOHC 2.4 L (2366 cc) 22R was produced from 1981 through 1995.
Cylinder bore was 91.9 mm (3.62 in) and stroke was 88.9 mm (3.5 in).

Initial output was 97 hp (72 kW) at 4800 rpm and 129 ft·lbf (174 N·m) at 2800 rpm.
By 1990 the 22R was producing 108 hp (81 kW) at 5000 rpm and 138 ft·lbf (187 N·m) at 3400 rpm.

The first fuel injected 22R-E engines appeared in 1983.
Output of these engines is commonly rated at 105 hp (78 kW) at 4800 rpm and 137 ft·lbf (185 N·m) at 2800 rpm.

In 1985, the engine was significantly reworked, output was up to 112 hp (84 kW) at 4600 rpm and 142 ft·lbf (192 N·m) at 3400 rpm. Many parts from the newer 22R-E are not compatible with those from the older pre-1985 engine. Non-compatible parts include the cylinder head, block, pistons and many of the associated parts such as the timing chain and cover, and water and oil pumps (although the oil pump internals are the same).

Toyota swapped the dual row timing chain used in older engines for a single row chain with plastic guides in 1983. This system reduced drag on the engine, but was inherently problematic. Every 80,000 to 140,000 miles, the chain stretches to the point that the hydraulic-operated chain tensioner can not take up any more slack. When this happens, the timing chain impacts driver's side chain guide, breaking the plastic within a few hundred miles of driving. If the engine continues to be operated after the guide breaks, the chain will stretch rapidly (an unfortunate characteristic of single row chains.) The loose chain causes inaccurate ignition timing which usually results in noticeable rough running. It may also rub a hole in the soft aluminum timing cover, resulting in engine coolant being forced into the oil sump and ultimately destroying the engine. In continued operation the chain can jump a tooth on the drive sprocket or break entirely, with either case resulting in engine damage from valve-piston collisions.

The turbocharged 22R-TE (sold from late 1985 through 1988) produced 135 hp (101 kW) at 4800 rpm and 173 ft·lbf (234 N·m) at 2800 rpm.

However, its weakness is high-end power. Thus, most performance enthusiasts usually prefer the Toyota 18R-G, 2T-G, 4A-GE and 3S-GE 4-cylinder engines, The 22R has a bigger displacement and a strong block, but its comparatively long stroke limits its use in high revving applications.

The engines are extremely well known for their durability, high fuel efficiency and good low to mid range torque.

Code Power kW (HP) Torque N·m (ft·lbf) Years Comments
22R 72 (97) at 4800 rpm 174 (129) & 2800 rpm 1981–1990 carb, dual row timing chain ('81-'82)
carb, single row timing chain ('83-'90)

22R 81 (108) at 5000 rpm 187 (138) & 3400 rpm 1990–1995
22R-E 78 (105) at 4800 rpm 185 (137) & 2800 rpm 1983–1984 EFI, single row timing chain
22R-E 84 (112) at 4600 rpm 192 (142) & 3400 rpm 1985–1995 EFI, single row timing chain
22R-TE 101 (135) at 4800 rpm 234 (173) & 2800 rpm 1986–1988 turbocharged, single row timing chain

Applications:

22R
1981 Toyota Corona
1981-1988 Toyota Hilux
1981-1984 Toyota Celica
1981-1995 Toyota Pickup
1984 Toyota 4Runner
22R-E
1985-1995 Toyota Hilux
1983-1985 Toyota Celica
1985-1995 Toyota Pickup
1985-1995 Toyota 4Runner
22R-TE
late 1985-1988 Toyota Hilux, 135 hp (101 kW)
1987 Toyota 4Runner





B :wave:
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Tinman »

what sought of upgrades can be done to a 4y?
atm i have webber carb, new head, and really good spark,
what would a brand new or a rebuilt older one 4y with custom efi, fully forged, ported head, extractors,
be expected to pull, mine runs ok but a lil ruff and tops out at 140km/h
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Tinman »

or find a 22r and do the same thing, because ive seen a celica with everything forged, ported head, turbo etc pulling just over 300hp off the line which is brutal, id be happy with half to a third of that, but hey the more horses to keep eachother company the better
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Family_Dog »

mine runs ok but a lil ruff and tops out at 140km/h
Due to the gearing ratios, you are still going to top out at that speed. But a Hilux doesn't really like that sort of speed, it's far happier at around 110-120km/hr true speed, which would equate to your 140 speedometer reading.

EFI will give you a lot more grunt at the lower end of the scale, which is really where you want it, rather than at the top end.


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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by JohanM »

Stuart,

I agree with Eric regarding the top speed of a Hilux. The EFI does make a tremendous difference to driveability and also helps economy a lot.

My 4Y has got a brospeed conversion that was developed many moons ago to enhance power on the 4y. It has worked, and now even after going EFI with mine, I still haven't gained a lot on the top end.

I can if I really want to push the engine foot flat for a while it gets close to showing about 158 on the clock but the difference in speed vs consumption from 120 to max, is still horrific considering the effort that it needs to gain momentum.

The flip side is what i like, lots of power up to 120 to overtake trucks, good economy, easy cold starts and one smooth power band suited to off road and on road.

My advice is simple, keep the 4Y, do EFI on it and stick to the speed limit down under...... :thumbup: :thumbup:
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Tinman »

yeah i think ill get one of those nice shinny new korean motors and turn efi, however its almost impossible to find the original 4y efi plennums, i was thinking of making one, in which case what design factors do i need for the accleration and torque? i have a welder as a good mate so all that will be done for free, all ill be needing is materials, also what thickness and from what would u guys recomend making it?
p.s we have a really kool thing in aus, we have a few open speed limit roads that tend to be straight flat and free of other cars, which come in handy when we wanted to test our turbo charged 1977 mini, clocked out 204km/h (GPS) the spedo didnt go that high :mrgreen:
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Dadz Toy BFI »

Stuart

You can buy a brand new high quality 4Y-E from China/Korea, will be easier than trying to find the parts yourself. :idea:

Enquire will your local engine importers. :wink:
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Mr_B »

The plenum, intake and throttle body we use for the EFi conversion are sourced off the 3Yi engines. In SA we get them at the engine importers, but lately the goodies have been a bit more difficult to find(and therefore a bit more expensive)! I'm sure, with a little digging you will find the goodies!

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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Tinman »

the 4yE is abit more than i wanted to spend, and just the straight 4y block is half the price(1300 plus p and H). and i can get most parts at a good discount and would be able to do most of the work myself and the bit i would need done would be almost free (lots of mechanic mates that ow me favours :mrgreen: ) heres an attached pic of the pleum style iv been told to go with, i know its a pic of a nissan, i am sorry :mrgreen: .
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Mr_B »

Dadz Toy BFI

Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Dadz Toy BFI »

Tinman wrote: i know its a pic of a nissan, i am sorry :mrgreen: .
Forgiven :x :evil: :twisted:
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Mr_B »

On Sunday Toybox's dad told me to get that piece of junk off his driveway, my SFA lux.

I just laughed when he said... only Nissan Hardbody's may park there... I wish Richard was with me to set the record straight!

B :D:
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Tinman »

only one of those links have 4y's and thats were i was going to be getting it from, except there ebay price is cheaper. what sort of stuff does a bro speed conversion consist of? and i take it all the ancilaries from an orginal 4y will fit a new 4y?
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Mr_B »

The BroSpeed conversion is pretty straight forward:

1. BroSpeed performance exhaust manifold/branch, they seem to be pretty generic these days...
2. AR40 profile cut cam(not all cam cutters cut the cam right, so be careful, ask around)

Some other things that people do at the same time to improve performance:

- Replace exhaust with a 2 box 50mm free flow system, but no more than 50mm else you lose torque (worth it)
- Port and gasflow the head (worth it only if done by expert), there are varing opinions on porting, some guys claim conventional porting is a waste of torque and suggest making the ports smaller to increase port velocity is more beneficial... read here... http://www.mototuneusa.com/think_fast.htm

Some other beneficial(power wise) mods:

- Install high compression pistons(with custom gapped ring gaps, like on race engines) or skim the head to up the compression (only worth it if doing a complete engine rebuild)
- Do an EFi conversion (one of the best power/fuel economy upgrades)
- Replace the viscous fan with an electrical fan system (only worth it if done properly with a 2 stage controller and decent fan, small power gain, maybe 4/5kw, but the engine revs easier), tried this on my 4Y, landed up back with the viscous...
- Do a cold air induction mod, only if your vehicle is EFi'd, tests claim a possible power increase of 4-5%. This mod seems to have worked for my lux, just need to finish it off properly... maybe this weekend!

There are other performance mods guys do, but I don't think they are appropriate for an offroad 4Y, like supercharging or turbo charging, anyway the 4Y was never designed to handle the extra power.

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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by pietpetoors »

Tinman, I am a bit late as usual, what does
go over the pits
mean?
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by ToyX4 »

pietpetoors wrote:Tinman, I am a bit late as usual, what does
go over the pits
mean?
Piet, I would guess it is the dug out in the ground at the testing station. Pull the car over the hole to inspect the undercarriage and whatever for roadworthy.
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Re: suitable swap for a 4y

Post by Tinman »

yeah pits is something you have to pass if you change your engine to a none stock engine,
and here there meen as and sooo picky
hence why most people here dont bother and try and make there engine look original so cops dont fine ya and make you go over the pits.
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