2.7 sluggish

[Justin]

Hi All,

I just bought a 2005 2.7 D/Cab (it's a Legend 35, if that makes any difference).
The vehicle is (great) but sluggish and by that I mean you really have to get a good run up to get to 140km. When you put your put down it pulls, but (IMO) not like it should compared to my S/Cab.

I am comparing the performance of my '05 2.7 D/cab model to my '01 2.7 S/cab (which goes like a bat out of hell when the pedal is applied (until the governor slaps you back).
The two vehicles have different tyres, but it is of mine and the guy at Toyota's opinion that this is not the factor which is making the '05 model more sluggish.

Having read the Engine differences 2.7 pre-facelift & Facelift models article by '3RZ' (Willem), my question(s) are:

- Can one replace the (newer) 8 port intake runner with the (older) 4 port intake runner?
- If yes, at what cost?
- Has anyone out there done this mod? I'd love to hear from you.

Side notes:
- The vehicle is with Toyota right now, they did a basic inspection today (spark plugs, air/fuel filter) and could not find anything wrong. They do agree that is running slower than what it should be and will be investigating further tomorrow.
- The '05 vehicle has Bf Goodrich All Terrain tyres fitted and has 11300Km's (full service history)
- The '01 vehicle has Firestone Destination tyres fitted and has 199600Km's (full service history)
- I am not interested in chipping the vehicle
- I get 600Km's off a tank on my S/cab (gentle driving)

Many thanks,
Justin

[Thabogrobler]

What are the tyre sizes on the two? 245 vs 31's could make a difference.

Have the fuel pressure checked - sometimes the fuel pump is down on pressure.

[FJCruiser-ZN]

Hi Justin

I've experienced the same with my 2.7i. I sold my 2005 4x2 D/C (Legend35) and bought a 2005 4x4 D/C ( Legend35) and immediately noticed the difference. The 4x2 went like a rocket, and the 4x4 in comparison seems sluggish. I thought maybe its something to do with the diff ratios. I also took the 4x4 to Toyota for a major service, but no difference. If you find out the reason, please let me know.
T

[3RZ]

Justin there is a difference in performance between the 8 and 4 port but not that big. Unfortunately you cannot just change the intake manifold you have to change the head as well. Start with the basics and work your way through. I would suggest getting it to a reputable dyno shop just for a dyno run to check the engine output and also the "shape" of the power and torque curves.

[3RZ]

A blockage or restriction in the exhaust or intake will also cause this type of problem, but that will show on a dyno. Pm me if you would like to have a chat. We have a saying at work "you cannot fix what you cannot measure".

[Jxjdm]

The fuel pumps on these vans are notoriously crap... replace with an aftermarket pump.....
Follow the link.... viewtopic.php?f=14&t=23191&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Justin]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

Thabo - the tyres size are:
D/Cab - 265/75/16 BFG All Terrain (I stand under correction)
S/Cab - 245/75/15 Firestone Destination
I'll mention the fuel pump pressure to the agents (I think that is something they are doing today anyway)

Tony - Did your two D/Cab's have different size tyres? Did the 4x4 have larger tyres? What tyres do you have on your D/Cab now?
Gear ratios could play a part, I am told they are different (between the 4x2 vs 4x4).
I'll keep you posted via this thread...

3RZ - Thanks for the info, pity the manifolds can't be cleanly swapped out, I'm going to miss my 600 km's on a tank! As mentioned the truck is with the agents and we're working our way up... You mention blockage or restriction and thats exactly what it feels like! The rev counter seems to move in slow motion (slightly exaggerated) when you put your put flat. Hopefully we'll find the 'problem' before taking it to a dyno shop.

Jxjdm - Thanks for the link - I would say I'm experiencing those flat spots too.

Assuming the agents don't find anything wrong, I'm very keen to swap the tyres on the two trucks and drag down the main road

[ismail]

Justin, I think the tyre size is the difference you are experiancing.
My wifes bakkie with the std 245/75/15 runs well dont keep an eye on the speedo then you easily sitting on 140km/h, while my bakkie with 32" tyres on is a different story.

[Theodorus]

I have 32. Muds on mylux and it takes away a great deal had mine chipped to get the same power again


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Mylux

[NUGGET]

I have a 2005 2.7 D/C 4x4 with 250k km on clock and runs like a touring car. Last dyno was 118kw and 239nm.
You should consider getting a stage one from steves auto clinic. Uni chip, branch, freeflow and small air box mod.
My vehicle pulls all the way to the red line, no flat spots. and sounds awesome

Get between 7 to 7.5 km per liter fuel.

Got standard wheels and tyres though.

[Justin]

Just got off the phone with the agents, they report that everything is 100% and that they cannot find any fault with the car (which is great to know They also suggested doing a dyno test.
If time allows this afternoon we will be swapping the tyres to see what happens.

I'm of the opinion that the smaller tyres will bring back the power I'm looking for.

Nugget: Perhaps one day l might consider a chip et al, for now I'm happy to keep things stock standard. As a matter of interest, did the chip improve or reduce your fuel consumption?

[Justin]

'No go' on the tyre swap today. We'll do the experiment another time. I'll reply here when we get round to doing the tyre swap.
Big thanks to Montagu Toyota for going over the vehicle at no charge Nice to know, my new acquisition is in good condition.

Legend35-ZN (Tony) - What size/type of tyres do you have on your truck?

Thanks everyone for all the help/replies so far, I'm looking forward to driving back roads to Plett this weekend.
Have a good weekend!

[FJCruiser-ZN]

Hi Justin

The 4x4 has 30x9.5x15 BF AT's. I swaped the rims and tyre's with the 2x4, because when I bought the 4x4 it had Firestone ATX's and the rims were quite scratched. I fitted the BF's to the 2x4 and they hadn't done 10k yet and I don't like the ATX's. Thus i have driven the 2x4 ad the 4x4 with the same tyre's so I can rule out the tyre's. I'm now wondering if it's not fuel starvation, maybe dirt in the tank or blocked injectors. I'm guessing the 2x4 had 25-30% more oomph, the difference in acceleration and top speed is noticeable.
T

[NUGGET]

Hi Justin

I purchased the vehicle with the conversion already done, but from what I have read from other members my consumption is about the same as a stock vehicle. I have how ever noticed that at higher rpm I have more power than the stock vehicle.

Check your hub locks in front are they engaged maybe you are driving in 2H with the wheels locked to for drive shafts and in turn spinning the front diff. But then again this cannot have a huge impact on performance.

Best thing get it dyno tested.

[Justin]

Tony, thanks for saving me the tyre swapping exercise.

Andrew, hubs are definitely free.

Took the vehicle out for a trip and drove some lovely backroads in the Swartberg area and surrounds.
I think my sluggish problem is me trying to operate the vehicle at lower revs (trying to save fuel). Driving the D/Cab 4x4 in a similar fashion to the S/Cab 4x2 seemingly doesn't work (the one being a fair amount heavier than the other!)
I'll let you know the results of the dyno test when I get round to it.

Otherwise loving the new truck.

Tx for everyone's help

[Justin]

I believe I have the answer...
A single cab Hilux weighs in at approx 1.6 ton.
A double cab Hilux weighs in at approx 2.6 ton.

[ROOFER]

are you sure ? we talking about +- 1000kg of extra weight. can it be?

the tare weight on my s/c is 1570kg then i definitely have to get
a 4 l v6 to carry that kind of weight arround .

[Justin]

According to the licence discs, yes.
Looking on the web you get different weights - anyone know the weight a Double vs Single cab?

[ROOFER]

Yes sir!!!!

[Zandyl]

I had mine on a weigh bridge, weight was 2060kg.

[ThomasH]

I had the SAC chip done and it picked up about 6.5kw. Had it checked a month ago and they did a re-map on the chip and gained another 3.5kw. Going to do the branch soon. There will be significant weight difference between the sc and dc and the dc4x4. On the 4x4 you have a complete diff and exstra on the gearbox that adds to the weight.
Do the complete convertion at SAC. They promised me it is a monster.