KZTE - no coolant in resevoir - HELP !

[WayneMan]

I was doing some random checks on my vehicle this afternnon, and notcied there was no coolant in my vehilce (KZTE). The resevoir normally has pink coolant and can be seen at the bottom of the resevoir.
I checked for obvious leaks under the vehicle, but could not find anything.
There was however, small traces of the pink coolant around the lid of the reservoir, which I know is not normal as Im paranoid about that and make sure its always clean.

Any idea where it could be leaking from ? I checked the oil and there doesn't seem to be traces of water in the oil, so I doubt (hope) the head is not cracked.
The engine seems to be running fine.

Any ideas?

[The Legend]

Wayne

I suggest you fill up the resevoir bottle and drive your bakkie and see if reservior bootle stays full.If not then you will defenitely know there is something wrong with your coolant system

The easiest way to find out if you have a waterleak is to do a pressure test.Hope for your part it is not a cracked head

[Thabogrobler]

Top up the water daily and start saving for an AMC head.

If you plan do do a long trip or towing sometime soon, have the head replaced before or opt for another vehicle.

[JamesC]

Oops...I see Thabo and myself responding here in tandem on KZ's (I have the t-shirt). If you see traces of water overflowing from the reservoir because that is where your water is going...as Thabo says...start saving for that AMC head and keep water in the car. I can tell you it will last about 200km and then you have to top up the reservoir

[JamesC]

Perhaps a more helpful reply:

1. Top up the reservoir and drive around till your reach operating temp, find an incline and get the engine to work. Stop, have a look at the level in the reservoir. Is it magically fuller? Trouble.
2. Once you have reached operating temp, slowly open the radiator cap and see if you have bubbles coming up through the water, sometimes you will even be able to smell something like exhaust gasses. Refer to Thabo's response.

Quite often the head cracks adjacent to a water port, so exhaust gasses escape into the cooling system creating back pressure - hence the bubbles in the radiator (and a reputable radiator place can quickly do a free test to show if there are exhaust gasses present in the cooling system) and hence also the reservoir overflowing and loosing all coolant because the exhaust gasses from the cracked head is pushing the water out of the cooling system. The cooling system is supposedly a closed loop but with a cracked head, it is a closed loop no more.

[WayneMan]

Thanks for the advise so far.
I have also been told that the water can be leaking into the exhaust and then vaporises so thereis no evidence of this.
Does this also elude to a crakcked head ?

I plan to fill the resevoir tonight and perfomr the basic tests.

Excuse the lack of knowlegde, but what is an AMC head ? Is it special i nany way or different from the standard one I currently have in my truck? Where do you get one. Cost ?

[Donkey]

Thanks for the advise so far.
I have also been told that the water can be leaking into the exhaust and then vaporises so thereis no evidence of this.
Does this also elude to a crakcked head?

I plan to fill the resevoir tonight and perfomr the basic tests.

Excuse the lack of knowlegde, but what is an AMC head ? Is it special i nany way or different from the standard one I currently have in my truck? Where do you get one. Cost ?

Could also alude to a head gasket blown, either way find out now, as the guys also suggest, rather than later. In my books it'll be cheaper to replace the gasket than the head, and hopefully it has not gone that far.

[TJV]

Wayne
Hopefully you have solved the problem, but best is to take it to a reputable radiator franchise and have a pressure test done. Sometimes it is only the radiator cap seal that start leaking and by replacing it with a standard Toyota one it solves the problem. This happened on my Hilux a few years ago and last year on my Fortuner as well. Both my company Hiluxes have also been replaced from time to time. As long as you open your Radiator cap and the water is in the top tank the engine should be ok.( do not open when there is still pressure in the system, wait for it to cool down) The sidetank with the pinkish coolant is what we call a puke tank(Expansion tank) and only transfer the water during heating and cooling sections to keep the cooling system 100% full. If bubbles enter the coolant at any point it will it means that the pressure is higher that the 1-1.2 bar in the cooling system that will push coolant to the puke tank that will at some stage loose some of them but not all unless your radiator and engine is dry. Another possibility is to check the rubber hose under the radiator cap connecting to the puke tank. That hose need to go to the longer tube of the puke tank cap as well.
Hope my explanation is the cheaper version of your problem.
Theunis

[Oupa Stig]

Reading this with great interrest... Dankie, Theunis, glad to see there might be other causes of KZ overheating issues (and cheaper!) than cracked heads... Tgink I must unlock the house and go check my pink drink levels... These darn threads always make me see ghosts! But at least the guys sharing their knowledge allows me to make somewhat more informed observations regarding my own KZ...

[WayneMan]

So today I managed to get a new expansion bottle cap. I topped up the expansion bottle and replaced the cap. Took the vehicle for a short drive and everything appeared to be ok (holding thumbs). The level has not dropped and neither did the temp gauge increase.
Tmrw I will take the vehicle to silverton for a thorough check up to put my mind at ease as I'm still not 100 percent sure.

I'm still however slightly confused....... Do I have that pink coolant AND water in my vehicle cooling system?
I've never had to top up with water for the radiator.
The engine runs smoothly and no jittering so let's hope for the best

[WayneMan]

The Good News: Now I know what the problem is.

Tha Bad News: This morning I took the vehicle to Silverton Radiators, and they did that litmus test and it showed up with gasses in the cooling system, which means a blown gasket, or possible cracked head.

So this is where i call upon your valuable knowledge as Im not the most clued up on motot vehicle engines........

1) where do I send the vehicle in to have the head checked and gasket replaced? Im in the Joburg area. I presume they will send the entire head to an engineering firm to do this and make sure there are no cracks?
2) if it does require a head replacemnt - where do I source one of these from ? I read earlier in the thread than an AMC is the way to go. Which ever mechanic that does th ework for me, where can we get one of these heads from ?
3) I may be wrong, but is it possible to put the head unit from a D4D into the KZ-TE, or am I looking at a big expense and complicated job ?

Thanks

[george]

3) I may be wrong, but is it possible to put the head unit from a D4D into the KZ-TE, or am I looking at a big expense and complicated job ?

I was also wondering about this.I think Hoppy did something like this

[Mud Dog]

The Gauteng guys can advise you where best to take it, but let them check it out before ordering a new head .... might just be gasket. If a head replacement is required, they might even know where to get the AMC head or if the D4D one will work. I have my doubts about the D4D head ..... usually the blocks differ to much to successfully marry up a different head.

Holding thumbs for you!

[WayneMan]

I just want to get it fixed and know that its reliable. I not too concerned about the D4D head, i just thought it might be a good replacement option.
Anyone heard about Horse Power City in Edenvale?

[TJV]

Sorry Wayne
Cannot help you with a specific place, I know there is a German guy working on VW but cant even think what his name is.
Most of these places know what they do, but make sure that they pressure test the head at the machining shop if it is fixable.
Strongs there

[WayneMan]

Thanks

I have found these 2 places which sound promising - ill give them a call during the day :

http://www.geminiparts.co.za/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.ultimate4x4.co.za/wmenu.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[4x4Maniac]

Wayne, sorry to hear this news... The place you are looking for is HeadZone, they are in Centurion. I'm estimating about R8-R9k for the head. They should be able to rebuild your old valves into the new head, but ensure that they get the shims correct when doing so. While you are busy with the cylinder head if it's that and not just a gasket, I suggest you sommer replace the thermostat and check the injectors. And if you haven't already flushed and cleaned the Radiator at Silverton's I suggest you do so. Costs of the head gasket I think is around R1500 for a kit. If you take off the head you also have to replace the head bolts, around R500. Also then because you have to drain the oil replace the filter also. I did mine 2 years ago and was around R14-15 for everything.

[WayneMan]

Thanks for the suggestions.
Im puzzeled to why this has happened ?!?
Its all good to replace the gasket, and possibly the head, but if the under lying problem is not found, i may just have the same problem in the future.
Is this problem caused by over heating from any of the thermostat, water pump, radiator? Ive also heard it can be the injectors. How does that cause over heating ?
Ive read a lot about getting an AMC head instead of an original toyota supplied one. is this purely because of price, or because they are genunily better quality??
And suggestions where I can have all this work done as i wont be doing it my self (lack of knowledge). Im in the Randburg area.

[grobbepj]

Thanks for the suggestions.
Im puzzeled to why this has happened ?!?
Its all good to replace the gasket, and possibly the head, but if the under lying problem is not found, i may just have the same problem in the future.
Is this problem caused by over heating from any of the thermostat, water pump, radiator? Ive also heard it can be the injectors. How does that cause over heating ?
Ive read a lot about getting an AMC head instead of an original toyota supplied one. is this purely because of price, or because they are genunily better quality??
And suggestions where I can have all this work done as i wont be doing it my self (lack of knowledge). Im in the Randburg area.

Good luck on this one Wayne. I am also keen to hear about the possible reasons and how to prevent it. My kz is just over the 180 000kms and just had the injector tips replaced. if there is anything else I can keep an eye on to not let this happen it will be great to know. Will keep an eye on your thread. Hope your kz will be fighting fit real soon...

[JamesC]

Wayne, I suspect part of the problem might be that the KZ typically has a cast iron block, in some cases cast-iron head and in some cases aluminum head. The petrols all come with alloy heads.

I don't think there are too many KZ's out there of which the head is still in mint untouched condition whilst the opposite can be said of petrol.

So, again enter the debate of diesel vs petrol and cost of ownership. At the moment, diesel is way more expensive at the pumps here in Potch than what I pay for 93 unleaded. I think if you do the sum carefully you will find cost of ownership on a diesel will be much higher ultimately than on petrol - especially if things start going wrong on the motor. Lastly, to add a turbo you are certainly put a hell of a lot of strain on simple mechanics (so I only shake my head at the new generation fords and the like that get amazing results from small motors)...longevity cannot be a given under such strain.

So, that is why I have opted for the 4.0L V6...low revving, normally aspirated...must last longer

[KZTE Nut]

All the best for your repair Wayne. Please keep us posted My KZTE now has 296,000 Km with motor still untouched. Fitted SAC intercooler and chip at 100,000 Km which will hopefully be beneficial for the engine due to lower air charge temperatures.

[WayneMan]

Surgery has been booked for next week Thursday.

What are your thoughts, and what are the chances of larger tyres being the cause of oever heating or cracked heads?
I replaced my standard tyres in May this year with 31" tyres. I have not done any trails with them yet, but have been to Botswana for 2 weeks in June. Other than that, not much else driving, only about 10 000kms. Given that the tyres are larger, there is a slight power loss, and hence would have to give more gas to get the same performance / effects. Do you think this 'over fueling' or more accelerator could be a possible cuase? Your thoughts be be interesting to hear.

[Thabogrobler]

Wayne, go and read up about EGT's - then you will understand what happens to the heads much better.

I am in the workshop at Dastek quite regularly and most Kz heads they replace there, the viscous fan is also shot.

I sent you a PM regarding a head.

[Donkey]

Surgery has been booked for next week Thursday.

What are your thoughts, and what are the chances of larger tyres being the cause of oever heating or cracked heads?
I replaced my standard tyres in May this year with 31" tyres. I have not done any trails with them yet, but have been to Botswana for 2 weeks in June. Other than that, not much else driving, only about 10 000kms. Given that the tyres are larger, there is a slight power loss, and hence would have to give more gas to get the same performance / effects. Do you think this 'over fueling' or more accelerator could be a possible cuase? Your thoughts be be interesting to hear.

31's are very ideal for the KZ, Wayne, and personally when I still ran 31's I could not see/feel a difference in power loss or fuel consumption (having bought the bakkie with 30's), I'm now running 35's and will soon do diff ratios, but expect no hassles enginewise either.

Problems with diesels is if you don't know it's history then you don't know how it was driven. Often people "race" them and this is the main cause for failure - keep your revs around 2500 rpm, oil change every 5000km and service every 10 000km you will be smiling. With overfueling comes more heat and more heat means a likelihood of cracking your head. Bear in mind that diesels run hotter in any case than petrols by virtue of them using compression as a means of combustion as oppsed to petrols which rely on spark and run cooler as a result. After changing the head and/or gasket change the thermostat also and make sure the fan is in a good state. Driven properly and given service as needed they give no issues, I'm happy with my KZ

Just my 2cw

[WayneMan]

Thanka Donkey Man

I had the thermostat replaced at the agents about 20 000 kms ago as good measure.
I service the vehicle regularly at the agents, as far as I know everything is in working order. But i will have the mechanic do a thorough check on the water pump, radiator and thermostat.
What is a Stat? I presume its the thermostat !
I read on a different forum about a guy who tried to diagnose a similar issue with his KZ. He had lots of theories about the flow of the water through the engine and radiator, and spoke about a stat. Sounded like the thermostat, and suggested getting a slilghtly lower rated one which opperated (open and closed) at a few degress lower than the standard one. I think he was referring to the one by the water pump. Not sure if anyone here can confirm where and how many thermonstats there are, and where they are located?
Here is the link - what do you guys think? Is it worth putting in a lower rating of thermostat?
http://www.landcruiserclub.net/forums/s ... Z-TE-motor" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Donkey]

I remember also reading something like that, and if I remember correctly it had something to the position of the thermostat as opposed to engine configurations, I think a lower temp rating thermos might help (I stand corrected) according to that theory.

Read elsewhere about drilling a tiny hole on the thermostat also to ensure a certain amount of flow.

[Danman]

Thanx theunis.
after reading this I decided to check the radiator cap on my 2.7 ifs(cause it started with the same symptoms).
so I bought a new one and this is how they comparred:

Wayne
Hopefully you have solved the problem, but best is to take it to a reputable radiator franchise and have a pressure test done. Sometimes it is only the radiator cap seal that start leaking and by replacing it with a standard Toyota one it solves the problem. This happened on my Hilux a few years ago and last year on my Fortuner as well. Both my company Hiluxes have also been replaced from time to time. As long as you open your Radiator cap and the water is in the top tank the engine should be ok.( do not open when there is still pressure in the system, wait for it to cool down) The sidetank with the pinkish coolant is what we call a puke tank(Expansion tank) and only transfer the water during heating and cooling sections to keep the cooling system 100% full. If bubbles enter the coolant at any point it will it means that the pressure is higher that the 1-1.2 bar in the cooling system that will push coolant to the puke tank that will at some stage loose some of them but not all unless your radiator and engine is dry. Another possibility is to check the rubber hose under the radiator cap connecting to the puke tank. That hose need to go to the longer tube of the puke tank cap as well.
Hope my explanation is the cheaper version of your
problem.
Theunis