Hilux 4x4 Forum

Me again on the engine conversions! I'm strictly speaking gatvol for the donkey engine with bad fuel consumption!
Can you guys plz tell me the pros and cons of both conversions and the approximate price of the conversion if you doit yourself and if somebody does it for you! On the fuel consumption of my 2.8d motor I get about 5.5 - 6.5 km per litre is hat normal?(I think not) and looking e previous thread about consumption on the Lexus it's better at consumption, if ur right foot is disciplined. Then I'd better opt for a different motor.

Hoekom sit jy nie vir jo n Lexus V8 in nie, ek hoor die ouens sê dis goedkoop en hulle is so lig op brandstof blykbaar 10km/l of iets

Dawie, the 7MGE conversion is great, I had one for more than 4 years and enjoyed every minute of it. That said, If I had to do it all again now, I would go for the Lexus. Reasons being:

1 ) Newer technology. 7MGE engines available 2nd hand all have high mileage on them now, as they date from the early 90's at the latest.
2 ) MORE POWER
3 ) Lexus engine weights less than the 7MGE
4 ) Cost is almost the same if you have to start from scratch
5 ) Skills and expertise for fitting Lexus engines are much more available at the moment.
6 ) Did I mention MORE POWER?
7 ) Better fuel consumption in the Lexus
8 ) It just sounds great...
9 ) Spares availability.

I am sure some of the guys will add many more reasons why you should go Lexus rather than 7MGE..

Oh, did I mention the power??

If you going to all the effort... I'd go lexus V8 with the autobox, will probably cost 10K more than the 7mge conversion, but the power!

Oh, did I mention the power??

[/quote] Oh, did I mention the power?? [quote]

Yes and you have to rev to get to THE POWER, something you do not want to do while doing off roading.
Everybody talks about the LEXUS conversion apparently the V8 is their version of LEXUS, did you know there is more engines than just the V8 in the Lexus range. IMHO the 7M GE will out run the V8 off road wise BY FAR, infact I have witnessed it, low down torque baby, that’s what you want and that is not what you get with the Lexus V8, you have to rev it to get it.:boredom: :boredom: But if it is just the sound that does it for you then that is the way it is.

sorry to put my 2 cents in , but in no way is a 7m going to have the same low down torque as a lexus that is set properly , in my own hilux i could see off any 7m at any time offroad or onroad , so if you are telling me the 7m is the way to go i just fell of my chair laughing .the lexus has probably in the region of 80 - 90% of the torque available from 1800rpm so where you get off saying the 7m is better then hell i dont know which 7m you have got but trust me ive driven 7m in a hilux and in no way will it outperform the lexus , maybe put a turbo on yes , but the worst motor for a 4x4 is a turbo petrol motor , no low down grunt and then when it starts boosting to much grunt , we have done so many conversions and we take out 4lv6 nissan motors,2.5td,5cyl diesels,7m ?????, 5l diesels in order to fit lexus motors and not one guy has come back dissapointed. so imho if you want something with a bit more vooma and good consumption yes then fit the lexus.

Mark do you got spares of 7MGE or know where to get ?

Sort of with you there Mark.. my experience was that with the 7M you need to be quite high in the rev range before the torque comes thru. A revvy motor, but very nice. I believe the Lexus will give the same torque as the 7M while running at much lower revs.. and then at higher revs overtake the 7M.. Dunno if that makes sense.. but anyway, I'll send a telegram..

What does the 7 m cost


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Mylux

Weet julle manne, ek sit ek dink nou hoekom sal n mens meer krag nodig hê?
Ons gooi die term "KW" en Torque so rond, dat ek voel ons mis die punt heeltemal.

Laat ek verduidelik:

Op ons plaas, was daar net 1400 Datsuns en KB20 (Chev LUV) Isuzu gewees. Ons het orals gekom, met of sonder vrag, van die hoogste randte tot die loste sand. Die CHEV was 4x4, en met sy 50kw het sy daaglikse pligte gedoen. Later van tyd het ons hom vervang met n 2.5D Direct injection Isuzu (seker ook 50kw?). Suid Afrika is geskep met voertuie van nie meer as 50Kw nie, dink maar terug. Die ou Isuzu's, Stout's, Datsuns en Land Rovers.

My punt is dat 20 jaar terug se voertuie het met n derde/kwart? van ons huidige voertuie se Kw en NM PRESIES die selfde gedoen as hulle plaasvervangers. Hoekom soek ons meer krag? Is dit omdat ons nie die 4x4 vernuf het van die vorige generasie mense nie?

Ekt nou vir Kaspaas en wat n magtige bakkie is hy nie met sy 7MGE!
Onthou, ek kom van n 3L Donkie, wat stadig maar bekwaam was in die veld en rowwe terrein!
Ek moet julle vra, ek weet nie waarvoor n mens die ekstra krag van V8 gaan nodig hê nie?

Tweedens, moet n mens nie die hele drivetrain versterk met n V8 nie? Die diwwe, remme, ens nie? Hoe kan die ombouings koste min of meer die selfde dan wees?

M2c

1. Fit a turbo, intercooler, bigger radiator and bigger fan onto the 2.8 (20K)

2. a 2.5D mazda motor(35K)

3. 2.7 Hilux motor with std management(40K)

4. Lexus V8 (55K)

Personally I think it is guys that suffer from a syndrome that like the BIG V8 thing, the 4x4 Hilux was build to do a specific job not to race your way through a off road track. But if you are looking for a bit of rolling up the road we use 6 cylinders to do that.

Watse 6 gebruik julle Jaco ?

Bulletjie-3 wrote:Watse 6 gebruik julle Jaco ?

Evertd, it depends on your favourite flavour of 6 pot, inline straight or v6. In the inline straight there's 2(or 3) Toyota options namely the 7MGE(80's older tech) or the newer 2JZ. Both are 3 litre engines, both are very reliable. The 7mge is a little long in the tooth now so finding a good condition unit is problematic and the spares are beginning to get scarce. So in terms of the inline straights the newer 2JZ would be the best bet! There a 2.5L option as well, the 1JZ, but if you going to all the trouble rather go with a 2JZ.

Then in terms of v6's, there's a few. Probably the better known ones are from the VZ family. The 3L V6 was used in the Toyota Surf and Tacoma overseas, but alas we never saw these engines locally, except for in the Camry, but the engine setup is all wrong for a rear wheel drive. The 5VZ(3.4L) was available locally in the Prado's(2nd gen I think). This is an awesome engine, powerful and responsive, but like all the other V6's it's pretty thirsty. Zepplin on the forum has just completed this conversion, I'm sure he'll be able to give you a better opinion(not unbiased though) of the 5VZ. The last engine I can think of that is worth a mention is the 1GR 4L V6, this is the V6 in the current Vigo. Again excellent engine, very good useable low down torque, but it's pretty thirsty and I'm sure 2nd hand they'll cost a fair penny.

IMHO, first prize would be the 2JZ with original management and auto-box! But that's just me!

Hi

Where do these prices come from, Im interested soon to do a conversion, but professional job :razz:

Im in the east rand.

Luxi with 33" BF Muds now need torque. 22R is not flying anymore.

Thanks

Guys, now Im pretty "deurmekaar"

Spoke with Mark, these are my opinions.

The 22R is fine on a standard SFA, I also do not want a rocket, but beleive me, adding these:
* Suspension lift with long long shackles
* 10 J Rims
* 33" BF Muds
* Rood rack
* Rear custom rack with roof top tent
* 2nd tank with extra fuel, extra weight
* Fridge 55L - Full of bear :alvarin:
* 2 Extra coolers full of ice,
* 4 people with luggage

The you try to go up Man or Muis at Rust de Winter, beleive me the 22R pulls dead. I had to rev and burn the clutch just to get it moving in 1st low.

Its not about speed, or just wanting a V8 to have one and it sounds good. Its to have all I have above, and still crawl up holding the steering with 1 hand.

4x4 to me is slow, crawling, and trying more than 1 line if needed. I do not beleive in high revs, speed or brute force. Then I can do any hill in a 2x4 with supercharged V8.

But lets look at the facts:

The V8 will be great, I would love it, BUT, long term problems:
Drive train is not strong enough for the power, have to upgrade:
* Rear Diff as I have the gearmax
* Brakes, cause with all the weight I have now, it hardly brakes
* Going downhill with the V8 auto, can you still engine brake? This is crucial to me!!
* Standard 5 speed will not last with that power

7M problems
Old motor with scarce spares
If not done right, its to long for the car
If head is not done right and engine, overheating is there
Special aircon mods to make it work like mark did

I think the 7M has enough power for what I need to do, and will be less harch on the drive train.

Decisions decisions

A conversion Im going to do, which one, I do not know yet.

96-Luxi 4x4 wrote:* Fridge 55L - Full of bear :alvarin:

First you need to get that bear out the fridge... it could be fatal!



The bakkie will be considerably lighter as well!

But replacing the bear with beer will make it heavier again!



Sorry couldn't help myself... left my meds at home to morning!

Funny

Im an Afrikaaaaner

Bulletjie-3 wrote:Watse 6 gebruik julle Jaco ?

2JZ GE en jy koop al die spares oor die toonbank by toyota

33 muds will make your engin work harder have you looked at diff ratio i don't know much about this its just what i heard

Jaco, doen julle ok conversions?

Wat sal daai nuwe 3L Straight six kos vir n vol conversion? 2JZ GE

I need it

Naas gaan ry Jaco's se bakkie... you'll be converted to a 2JZ long before your bakkie is!

But who can do it for me, for less than an arm and a leg??

I need it guys

96-Luxi 4x4 wrote:Jaco, doen julle ok conversions?

Wat sal daai nuwe 3L Straight six kos vir n vol conversion? 2JZ GE

My broer is die hoof mechanic want ek werk weg maar hy is ook deesdae saam met my op projekte, ons is tans in Botswana besig, sorry chom.
Hoekom praat jy nie met Blum TRD hier op die forum nie ek weet hy doen conversions en Hoppy in die kaap is ook n man wat weet wat hy doen.

Sal ma hoor by die manne

Anders wag ek tot julle terug is

Sal ma sien, dis vir my n groot besluit, want ek wil nie spyt wees na die tyd oor engine keuse ens nie.

Dink daai 2JZ GE is die regte way omdat hy nuwer is.

manegemnet system? In watse toyota karre was die 2JZ?

Dankie baie

To quote Wakapedia:

2JZ

The 3.0 L (2997 cc) 2JZ has been produced since 1991 (first released in the 1991 Toyota Aristo). Cylinder bore was 86 mm (3.39 in) and stroke was 86 mm (3.39 in). VVT-i variable valve timing was added later in 1997 for the 1998 model year.
[edit] 2JZ-GE

The 2JZ-GE is a common version. Output is 220 hp JIS (158 to 169 kW) at 5800 to 6000 rpm and 209 to 220 lb·ft (283 to 298 Nm) of torque at 3800 to 4800 rpm.

It uses Sequential Electronic Fuel Injection, has an aluminum head and 4 valves per cylinder with some versions using VVT-i, along with a cast-iron cylinder block. The VVT-i version also featured DIS in favor of the traditional distributor set-up previously seen on the 2JZ-GE. Despite common misconception it was not a true COP (Coil-On Plug) ignition system instead relying on one coil to fire two cylinders, one of which was by spark plug wire.

Applications:

Toyota Altezza / Lexus IS 300
Toyota Aristo / Lexus GS 300
Toyota Crown/Toyota Crown Majesta
Toyota Mark II
Toyota Chaser
Toyota Cresta
Toyota Progres
Toyota Soarer / Lexus SC 300
Toyota Supra MK IV

96-Luxi 4x4 wrote: manegemnet system?

Ons gebruik Go-Tech.

If I had 50K to spend then Yes a 2jz it will be

Im really going towards the V8

My hart voel hy soek hom, dis nou seke wee die windgatgyt wat praat

As ek die V8 mooi ry sal ek mos nie iets breek nie?? :alvarin:

Kan iemand my se - met die auto box, in tiptronic, nou los ek hom in 1st, transferbox in low, gaan hy engine brake afdraende??

Party se ja, party se nee. As iemand wat n lexus het met n auto box ons kan se asb?

Lat ons ma sien

better to have it and not need it, then to need it and not have it!!

as far a breaking the drivetrain with the V8, depends on lots of factors!!
drive it nicely, dont labour the motor, and all will fine, that was the expert opinion of a reputable gearbox shop
if you start towing 5tons just couz the V8 can then things are also not going to last
start behaving like a teen ager at the lights and you can break anything

there are lots of options out there, and hence the issue of making a choice!!

get the V8 they sound so good!!! Brrrrrrr

That all makes perfect sense!!

My 22r makes me feel

So plan begins for the transplant

well naas , you drove in the navara with the lexus and what did you think taking it weighs 800kg more than the lux , the 2jz ge is a good motor but for torque you still cannot beat the v8 dont care what the guys say , even on paper its better. what the 2jz has on the flywheel you have the same on the wheels with the v8 , true if you are going to drive it like you stole it yes you will end up breaking something but that is par for the coarse with anything. but enjoyed chatting on thursday but if you come around again let me know and i will get the last one that we did to pop around and we will go for a spin , cheers
mark

Mark, are you talking about a 1UZ

Hoppy het meer as 'n jaar gelede my 1UZ in geplant en ek SMILE nog al die pad!! Die standaard box hou nog.......en glo my, ek bederf nie my trokkie nie, ek GENIET hom!

The 2JZ-GE is a common version. Output is 220 hp JIS (158 to 169 kW) at 5800 to 6000 rpm and 209 to 220 lb·ft (283 to 298 Nm) of torque at 3800 to 4800 rpm , these figures are on the flywheel.

jaco , yes i am talking about the 1uz , dyno figures that we generaly get with the conversions are between 120 - 135kw on the wheels , and 260 -300nm on the wheels , so like i said the 2jz is not the same or even better than the 1uz. granted the jz range of motors are good motors but the guys must remember the motor is almost 80mm longer than the 1uz and it is already a tight squeeze. i know the 1 and 2j motor well as we have done a lot of conversions into bms etc. at the end of the day the cost to do the conversion will work out the same for both motors so whats the point of going the six route. had a kzte shape double cab come in yesterday and the customer is getting between 10.5 - 11.2 km/l.

Mark

After our chats and my investigations:
Seems like you and i are gonne b good friends soon. As long as you look after Luxi as if it was your own long last child, all will be well.

4L 1 UZ VVTi with OME Management here I come!

Just now to get the funds, and sneak it past SWAMBO

One question, they say the distributers are open and do not like water?? Will I still be able to half submerge it going through a river or dam or whatever as with the old 22R??

Thanks Mark

What is the cost involved? Parts you use?

Mark will do the whole job for me

Takes a Lexus V8 with auto box, and he makes it work. Give him a PM and he will mail you a quote and expplain.

Drove in one today, first V8 in a SFA I have driven. Not a rocket, but more that enough compared to my 22R.

Only thing that I wanted was engine brake downhill, that is not there, the auto goes into almost neutral mode when you take your foot off the gas. Other than that Im happy. This is not the prettiest conversion, and it seems like its going to overheat as it was very hot today just normal driving.

I trust Mark will make sure mine is fine. Im closing my eyes and going for it. Mark, you are gonna have me for life now

Mark, one other question. This one had an oil cooler for the gearbox, and I have read others install this as well for the slow off-road. Do you also do this? I think its not a bad idea. I do not want any issues while crawling the whole day. And cooling the engine and gearbox, and me inside with the AC are my Major concerns!

I'm excited. Soon Luxi will have the transplant, and be the ultimate 4x4 toy!!

Overheating must not be a problem, neatness a must. This use the BMW 850i Radiator, twin electric fans and DO NOT OVERHEAT offroad. This one turns 35" tyres like nothing.

I am sure if done properly it could work Naas.

No I also think Mark knows the ins and outs, and, if there is an issue Im sure I can take it back, we can brainstorm and make a plan.

Wish I could just close my eyes and its done.

Does that one have a oil cooler for the gearbox? And does it have a body lift?

Jaco wat nou??

96-Luxi 4x4 wrote:Jaco wat nou??

Neeeee Niks nie, laat weet hoe maak jou Lux off-road, teerpad is eending maar as jy off-road gaan is waar die prove is.

Weet jy, enige engine is beter as die 22R, of dit nou die straight 6 is, of die v8.

Dis ook hoekom ek die VVti vat. Hy het oor die 400nm, en begin baie laer op die refs.

Die ou een begin eers op 2200rpm dink ek, die vvti begin al op 1300 of 1400 met baie torque.

Dink hy sal fine wees. En glo my ek maak seker hulle doen als sodat hy off road nie moeilikheid gee nie soos met aircon, overheating, auto box heating ens.

het besluit ek gaan nou ma die kans vat. As daar drama is maak ek n plan, en sort dit uit. Die Hilux het nie n ma of n pa nie, en ek glo nie in kannie ni, so die conversion op die einde moet ma net werk!

Ek sal jou wel laat weet of dit n fout was of nie.

Naas, dis nie om 'n kans te waag. Dis om meer te betaal op die reperasies. Ek het verlede week met iemand gepraat wat nou al by R110 000 rand trek waar DIT HOM NET SOU R45 000 SOU KOS. Die beste is hy het nou nog steeds nie sy 2.7 hilux terug nie. Dit na 6 maande.

As die Installerder sal toestem dat hy om enige parte, veranderinge op sy onkoste sal he. Met ander woorde, as die installasie al gedoen was en die engin overheat en daar moet radiators of fans of wat ook al verbeter word dit sy probleem is.

So het ons ooreen gestem ja, en ek moet se die mense wat al by hom was is happy, en hulle doen erg 4x4 ook.

So eks positief dit kan werk.

vat n kans, wen n prys

het al van nagmeries gehoor met 7M motors ook, en self gesien ook.

En het al van baie happy V8 customers gehoor ook. So eks positief ek sal reg kom.

Daai pel wat so sukkel en al 6 maande wag, wie doen syne??

wat is die probleem da? Ek moet eerlik se, ek het al voorheen die idee laat gaan, omdat ek bang was vir die tipe uitkoms.

Die feit dat die V8 dalk die drivetrain gaan opneek, soos side shaft breek of diff pla my nie, dis nou ma so, en hang af hoe ek ry. maar overheating en aircon moet 110% reg wees, anders gan ek upset wees.

Mark I will be seeing you soon. I am waiting for my cruiser and then I plan to get a 3 uz to put in. I am battling to find one with the six speed auto box. Do you maybe know where I can get one?

Hey Naas,

Your 22R an EFI? IF so, what do you want for the whole setup, engine and all?

Shane

Sorry man, no EFI, just standard.

But will be selling the engine after the transplant!

hi guys , sorry have not been able to get on for a while. ive just read the posts and here goes with some answers , i love what i do and i take every customers vehicle as if its my own , i dont rush something and what i have found over the years is that ive made some good friends and had a good time , i give a detailed quote and never do what ive seen some people do and thats when the conversion is finished they dont want to know you anymore once they have your money. any of my customers can be asked behind my back and i never drop anybody , i will always be there to help , i dont know how many times ive come in on weekends to help somebody , yes i have fixed a number of so called done conversions and basically started from scratch again. ive just had a customer on the phone while busy typing this and his motor ran bearings , this was one of the so called conversions done in pretoria ,we got it running for him last year but then it broke his manual box and when i took it out it had an anchor of a flywheel on it and the oil pickup pipe had pinholes in it from the tig welding , and i told him ive had the same before and it destroyed the main bearings on a previous 76 land cruiser , but got him going any way and fitted an auto box with his transfer case , fixed the pick up pipe and rewelded the ally sump as it leaked like a sieve and it went pretty well but as ive said now 10 months down the line the motor started to rumble, so now 2 choices pull motor and replace or pull motor replace b/e mains and crank. unfortunately i did not supply the motor or do the original conversion if i did i would just replace the motor free of charge. i have already replaced a month back the rear and front seal because it leaked at no charge , but he informed me it started leaking again after 2 days this is when i told him the crank was walking around in the bearings , and we had it planned to pull the motor in 3 weeks time , but murphy jumped in and told us otherwise.

as for a few other questions raised , yes naas on all the auto boxes we fit external oil coolers approx 300mm x 400mm high flow as no auto box can run without it, i dont go through the radiator as some do as i feel it is not enough cooling , and last time i checked oil and water dont mix so well( ask a few navara owners this , this why nissan added external coolers )
radiators that we use are either the bmw as mentioned ( very versatile radiator , use them plenty on 1j and 2j conversions ) or the prado landcruiser as it has a nice thick 60mm core and good volume.
i hope this has shed a bit of light on a few qhestions
now have to do some homework as somebody has asked me to put a 1uz in a chana double cab , a bit crazy i think but the customer is adamant he wants it so lets see.
mark ill check on the gearbox as i am also after one for my mercedes.

louis , i feel for the guy that you are talking about as its frustrating when things like this happen , and ive had my share of guys coming to me after the fact and i do feel for them and yes i will help them the best i can , we just finished a kz shape double cab 2wd beginning december ( 2 weeks to prep motor and gearbox, wiring etc , and the bakkie was of the road for 3 weeks to do the conversion ) , 1uz with auto , aircon ( relocated condensor above spare wheel with 12 inch fan ) , kzte radiator - 16 inch fan , stainless steel 2 x 57mm into 1 x 63mm exhaust ,external pump and anodised fuel filter , original air filter with stainless steel crossover pipe ( irritates the hell out of me when people turn the inlet manifold around , just does not look right ) , still replaced his side lamps in front for free because they were broken , 40k all in . will post some pics later as im at work and the pics are at home. maybe ill try on the lc club as i think i might have them in my gallery.





navara just completed




landcruiser 62 series , auto with 4wd





tata telcoline with 1jz vvt turbo and auto box

Mark

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate it. The Hilux I told you about that my friend bought. He traced back to first owner, and seems like the 2nd owner did the conversion himself (wasn't yours), invoice from you was just a quote or for the wiring as you said or something. On this one the intake is turned around, I agree, looks dumb.

I think the most important point you raised, and this is what I like, is you are there afterwards, should something go wrong, or we need to sort out 1 or 2 unforeseen issues.

I'll see you tomorrow after 12, bring you that deposit. We are in business

Need Luxi ready for a trip end April to Serendipity. Wanna do it with the V8

Drove that other Lux again yesterday, Im more than convinced now, if you felt it with the V98 Auto, I cannot go back to the 22R now.

VVTi here we come.

Thanks Mark, talk soon.

Hey Mark, impressive conversions, very neat! Well done!

pleasure naas , thanks mr t , the lux in the pic is the one mentioned before the owner is an oldish guy no robot racer drives decent and he gets 10 - 11.3 km/l , my motto is if you are proud to open your bonnet then youve done it right , i was told the other day that they just wash the motor off and stick it in as it looks more natural , bullsh*t take the effort and strip clean paint powdercoat otherwise dont bother doing it , i have had a few guys that did not want it done its their vehicle ( which is fine by me ) so i just sent them on to the next guy to do the conversion as i am not attaching my name to it , what i enjoy is the fact that everything is done inhouse except for aircon gas and pipes , at least then i know what has been done. found this pic last night 1947 willys overland , had a jag 6 in it so we fitted a 1uz with the jag gearbox.





even modded the jag guages to fit in the original pod , ok dont like the lights for the indicators but have new ones coming from the uk.

Glad you said you make the Exhaust bigger!!! Was waiting for this one.

louis , yes the exhaust at 2 x 57mm into 1 x 63mm is more than enough for the 1uz , we only use stainless steel and all the boxes are sourced from wildcat , the cost of mild steel is not even worth looking at , normally a 3 box system we charge R2600 and the 2 box R2200-00.

Thanks Mark let me know also what price you can get a 3 uz for.

will do mark , have to glue the phone to my ear tomorrow as ive got a hell of a shopping list.