Driving style

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:10 am

So with the fuel price going thru the roof, my foot has definately become lighter.
Not that I was a lead foot by any means, i was always one for economy rather than speed.

If on a flat stretch of road, I ussually would change gear at about 3000rpm. Lately I found myself changing at 2500rpm, gently nursing the car till the next gear change.

Now my question is, does this have any detremental impact on gearbox, diffs etc. This morning I was driving the beast to work, and on the little hills on the N1 close to town, I was trying not to change from fourth to third afraid to pick up the rpm's. Is this wise though?

Post by **george** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:26 am

Hi.
AFAIK the only problem is with 5th gear.Especially if you have larger tyres.
My mechanics always told me not to climb hills in 5th gear if your revs are dropping under 3000rpm.rather change to 4th.

ThysdJ · Post by **ThysdJ** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 8:46 am

Yes george is right. 5th is an "overdrive" gear and should not be used for hard work, like towing stuff, or labouring uphill. When towing never use 5th you will stuff it up in no time.. :roll:

Doctor V · Post by **Doctor V** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:57 am

Ek ken net een spoed - HARD! en met daai nuwe bree tekkies sien ek die verskil!

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:03 am

So if I'm cruising up Sir lowry's pass, at about 60, in third / fourth gear, with seven okes, and a trailer, it should be fine. 3rd / 4th, whichever keeps the revs to minimum without losing momentum - ie keeping constant 60, rather than dropping speed.

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:06 am

Doctor V wrote:Ek ken net een spoed - HARD!

met n 2.2

het jy hom geturbo

GTO · Post by **GTO** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:15 am

On hills it is best to have the engine revs near the rpm where the torque peak is.
On my 2.4 SRX(22R) its a 3200rpm so I try and keep the revs close to that engine speed.My 2700i(3RZ) is a 4000rpm.
4Y is lower if I am not mistaken :)

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:09 pm

according to this site, the peak torque is at 5000rpm

http://www.brian894x4.com/Hiluxengines.html

EINA !!!

Doctor V · Post by **Doctor V** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 3:11 pm

Ek het gesÃª ek ry hard - nie dat dit waar word nie!

GTO · Post by **GTO** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:14 pm

To a look at that site maximum power is at 5200 rpm
Maximum torque at 2400 rpm.
So you should select a gear that will keep your revs in the region of 2400 when climbing hills.

Scorpion · Post by **Scorpion** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 4:44 pm

Niel wrote:
Doctor V wrote:Ek ken net een spoed - HARD!
met n 2.2 het jy hom geturbo

Jy het niks te se oor 'n 4Y nie, Niel, want jy ry 'n donkie! :roll:

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Fri Aug 01, 2008 10:53 pm

Gelukkig n baie vinniger donkie as n 4y laaste keer toe ek gekyk het

:roll: 8)

Post by **JohanM** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:11 pm

Neil,

Soos jy sÃª, toe jy laas gekyk het......Jy sien daai 4Y-ster EFI van my gaan dalk daai donkie van jou uitput op die lang pad....SO ja jy moet nou maar plan maak met daai donkie en bietjie spirrits by sy stert loop smeer sodat hy die pas kan vol hou....

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:22 pm

JohanM wrote:SO ja jy moet nou maar plan maak met daai donkie en bietjie spirrits by sy stert loop smeer sodat hy die pas kan vol hou....
Neil,

Soos jy sÃª, toe jy laas gekyk het......Jy sien daai 4Y-ster EFI van my gaan dalk daai donkie van jou uitput op die lang pad....SO ja jy moet nou maar plan maak met daai donkie en bietjie spirrits by sy stert loop smeer sodat hy die pas kan vol hou....

enige dag kom af die petrol is mos nie meer so duur nie dan ry ons bietjie :D :D

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:27 am

Shaakir

The trick is not to get the RPM down but to rather keep the manifold vacuum up to as high as possible. Th less the vacuum the higher the mass of air going into the engine and the higher the mass of air the more fuel goes in too. If your manifold vacuum is close to 0 bar then your vehicle is sucking in the maximum amount of fuel so even if your revs is low she will be thirsty.

If you can run a specific piece of road at say 100 km/h at about say 3000 RPM in 5th or the same stretch at 3700 in forth (not sure exactly what your ratios are) , but your throttle is open a 1/4 open (higher manifold vacuum) in 4th vs.3/4 open (lover vacuum) at lower RPM in 5th then the engine would run more effecient and use (and waste) less fuel in 4th with the higher RPM.

The trick in driving economically is to figure out what band in your RPM gives you the best response and power at the least throttle opening and drive in that RPM range all the time rather then keeping the RPMs down.

Irishman · Post by **Irishman** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:25 am

When carrying out the above test wear your carpet slippers to senesitise your foot. Hob nail boots won't cut it.

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:57 am

so how does one tell how far open the throttle. Is this the same as how far down you accelarator pedal is? The futher down, the more open the throttle?

King Rat · Post by **King Rat** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:34 am

It's more about the load than the throttle opening. In other words, if you have low revs and a large opening to keep a steady speed or accelerate, your fuel usage will go up as BenHur mentioned. Small throttle openings but in the right gear and changing on the torque curve of the engine, even if itâ€™s not at peak torque will be the ideal. If you don't have a vacuum gauge the best is to accelerate using the least revs but not straining the engine. Try and keep your inputs as smooth as possible and anticipate road conditions to keep constant speed as much as possible. It's lots of factors together that improves your efficiency.

Doctor V · Post by **Doctor V** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:05 pm

In town it seems I get about 6km/l. Typical stop-go. On the open road, doing about 100 at 3200 rpms this goes up to about 8 (8.5 best with 4 adults and luggage)

I've tried using the rpm method in town and keep to under 3000 but somehow the rubber sticks to the tar and I lose a lot of momentum. So 1 - 3 generally 3500 to gather some speed

Post by **JohanM** » Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:13 pm

Doctor V wrote:I've tried using the rpm method in town and keep to under 3000 but somehow the rubber sticks to the tar and I lose a lot of momentum. So 1 - 3 generally 3500 to gather some speed

Van Zyl dan is dit tyd dat jy EFI gaan met jou bakkie.

Ek kan met 3000rpm gemaklik versnel tot op 110km/h sonder moeite. Vra vir Bennie, het ook my myne en Bulldog gery.

Ek moes altyd ook so 3500 gebruik maar nou maklik net tot so 3000rpm wat soms meer as genoeg is.

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 12:00 pm

SO RPM is not actually the key, but throttle opening.

I always wondered about the rpm's. If I'm doing 100 on flat rd, at about 3000rpm, and going downhill also 100 @ 3000 rpm, the engine is turning over at the same rate, but because my throttle is not so far open downhill, it uses les fuel

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:06 pm

Something to that effect. The combination of engine speed vs throttle opening determine manifold absolute pressure aka manifold vacuum. The higher the vacuum (negative pressure) the more economical and vice versa.

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:17 am

I tried this weekend on a open stretch of road, did about 80, about 2000rpm in 5th and 2500rpm in 4th. But for the life of me I cannot judge when the manifold vacuum is at it's most economical

How do I get a vacuum gauge. And how do you install?

3RZ · Post by **3RZ** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 2:12 pm

You can buy them at any Midas or Autozone, I have an Equus in my Hilux, the Equus kit comes with all the fittings, (pipe, t-piece, mounting bracket etc) and is backlit. I think I paid R120 odd Rand for it. You just T it into any vacuum pipe on the manifold side ie after the throttle body or carb.

dalkill · Post by **dalkill** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:17 pm

so is it helping you to judge your fuel consumption?

3RZ · Post by **3RZ** » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:19 pm

I would say it is worth it, definitely makes you more conscious of the throttle position and makes you feel guilty if the needle goes to â€œBADâ€ side

. but it must be a mechanical gauge. You will be surprised how big a difference a small change in throttle makes to the vacuum.

Here is a picture of mine installed:

This the one I first bought

GTO · Post by **GTO** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 3:34 pm

Willem I would'nt mind to fit one in my 2700i.
Which pipe on the manifold did you T it into?
Also I would prefer to fit it nearer to the dashboard but I suppose that isn't really possible. :?

3RZ · Post by **3RZ** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:31 pm

Stephen on your 2.7 there shoul be a vacuum pipe connected to the intake on the right hand side that you can use, I will post a photo later. I agree that the gauge should actually be on the dash where it is more visible , this one of mine is only a temporary installation and I did not drill any holes for the bracket, I used the ashtray mounting screws. I have collected all the hardware for my gauge installation and as soon as I complete this I will move the vacuum gauge to a more visible location. I am going to install a water temp, oil temp, oil pressure, voltmeter and the vacuum gauge. The biggest problem is the mounting of the gauges and it looks like I will have to get creative and make someting myself.

GTO · Post by **GTO** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 4:54 pm

Let us know how the installation goes. :D

Suli · Post by **Suli** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:16 pm

OH

and if you have a row of spot lights above the roof like on a roll bar ... take it off ... only slows you down and messes up the little aerodynamics on a 4wd thus using more fuel.

I find stressing about the few rand saveing on fuel added heaps to my road rage... so now I drive at my mental comfort level...

On another note ... Anyone knows where I can get some Molly Grease for the Front wheels ?

3RZ · Post by **3RZ** » Tue Aug 12, 2008 5:46 pm

Stephen mine is connected as in the photo (the green thingy is the T-piece). My fuel pressure regulator is also connected to the manifold vacuum as there is little to no vacuum on the resonator before the throttle body where it is connected as standard, but don't just move yours, it has to be re-tuned if you do this.

Scooter · Post by **Scooter** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 6:39 am

Suli wrote:
On another note ... Anyone knows where I can get some Molly Grease for the Front wheels ?

Try your local midas, autozone etc etc

Shell make one called "super duty grease".

GTO · Post by **GTO** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 7:14 am

Thanks for the pic :D

Maverick · Post by **Maverick** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:45 pm

3RZ wrote:I would say it is worth it, definitely makes you more conscious of the throttle position and makes you feel guilty if the needle goes to â€œBADâ€ side . but it must be a mechanical gauge. You will be surprised how big a difference a small change in throttle makes to the vacuum.

Here is a picture of mine installed:
Vacuum1.JPG
This the one I first bought
Vacuum2.JPG

The first thing I was thinking about is if every motor has the same vacuum underpressure/pressure and how can you know what's bad and good?
Offcourse you know that 0 is bad, but 100, is that max on the motor you drive?

Maybe the best at a 2.4 is between 60-100 and on a 2.7 40-70.

You get my point?

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:52 pm

3RZ wrote:I would say it is worth it, definitely makes you more conscious of the throttle position and makes you feel guilty if the needle goes to â€œBADâ€ side . but it must be a mechanical gauge. You will be surprised how big a difference a small change in throttle makes to the vacuum.

Here is a picture of mine installed:
Vacuum1.JPG

Willem

This is exactly what I've been looking for 8)

Where did you get it (what make is it) and approx how much please

Many thanks, a great post

Rich

3RZ · Post by **3RZ** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 6:39 am

Rich, it's an Equus gauge, I bought this one at Midas it was about R130, but what is nice about this one is that you get everything that you need in the kit. Included is the T-piece, pipe, mounting bracket and the gauge. The gauge is backlit as well, connect it up with the rest of your instrument lights. I have bought their Voltmeter, water temp, oil temp, oil pressure as well and the quality looks very good considering the price and all of the kits include everything needed except for the electrical wiring. The 4 gauge mounting brackets are about R70 and you get 1,2,3 or 4 gauge dashmount pods as well for about the same price. The vacuum gauge is actually ver versatile have a look here to see what the gauge can tell you.

http://www.users.bigpond.com/ergoff/vac1.htm
http://www.classic-cars-online.co.uk/Ar ... gauge.html

Irishman · Post by **Irishman** » Thu Aug 14, 2008 10:46 am

When I fitted my gas system I also fitted a vacuum gauge. I recommend everyone should fit one. When you see that needle going into the red, your foot automatically lifts off.
Ron.

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Fri Aug 22, 2008 7:38 am

Any old vacuum gauge (cheepy) will do its scale does not have to be very accurate as you are more interested in the deflection then the reading/value.

If your needle seems to move a lot (oscillating) try fitting a restrictor with a hole of 1mm ID or smaller to the connection pipe

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Sat Aug 23, 2008 7:19 pm

The Only one I've found in Cape Town
is by:

Control Instruments VDO - for Automotive Application

It has a range of: -150 to +150

trade price is R875 for the kit

A Bit Pricey hey

What say you please

Rich

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:29 am

Dadz Toy wrote:The Only one I've found in Cape Town
is by:

Control Instruments VDO - for Automotive Application

It has a range of: -150 to +150

trade price is R875 for the kit

A Bit Pricey hey

What say you please

Rich

Ooooeeerr :!:

The guy from Control Instruments will be here just now

What do you think guys

Yaa or Naa

Rich

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 9:30 am

R875 is way toooo much you do not nead a fancy one like that. Sorry man my local spares shop did not have any either and I just do not have time to go hunting for one here either, Can your local Midas Autozone order you one?

Post by **JohanM** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:22 pm

Bennie,

I will go hunting next week there in the Free state for a vacuum gauge and see if I can get you one....

ToyX4 · Post by **ToyX4** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:27 pm

JohanM wrote:Bennie,

I will go hunting next week there in the Free state for a vacuum gauge and see if I can get you one....

Johan, I might be wrong, but I think Bennie only wanted one for Rich's Lux, as Rich couldn't find one in the Cape.
I could be wrong though, or misread something.
Just saying

Post by **JohanM** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:33 pm

ToyX4 wrote:
JohanM wrote:Bennie,

I will go hunting next week there in the Free state for a vacuum gauge and see if I can get you one....
Johan, I might be wrong, but I think Bennie only wanted one for Rich's Lux, as Rich couldn't find one in the Cape.
I could be wrong though, or misread something.
Just saying

Is true......

but i might feel like fitting that with a few other gauges to my Hilux, but is still deciding........
Maybe we can get him one to fit to the red machine, so that the foot can stay light on the pedal, other wise we will have to start looking for new tyres soon on his Lux.......

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:01 pm

My driving style on road entails to keep the vacuum as close as possible to zero bar. So a vacuum gauge will not help me, my beemers all had a built in econo-meters in and I always tried to keep it as far as possible to the right for as long as possible

Post by **JohanM** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:05 pm

BenHur wrote:My driving style on road entails to keep the vacuum as close as possible to zero bar. So a vacuum gauge will not help me, my beemers all had a built in econo-meters in and I always tried to keep it as far as possible to the right for as long as possible

Jy sien, ek het nou juis gedink dat dit die rede kan wees hoekom daai platkar olie gelek het...

Ek sien hier kom `n rooi rocket as jy klaar jou 7m ingeloop het.....

ToyX4 · Post by **ToyX4** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:12 pm

JohanM wrote:
BenHur wrote:My driving style on road entails to keep the vacuum as close as possible to zero bar. So a vacuum gauge will not help me, my beemers all had a built in econo-meters in and I always tried to keep it as far as possible to the right for as long as possible
Jy sien, ek het nou juis gedink dat dit die rede kan wees hoekom daai platkar olie gelek het...

Ek sien hier kom `n rooi rocket as jy klaar jou 7m ingeloop het.....

Ek se weer, daai rooi hilux is soos n spook, of visvang....... ek hoor daarvan, maar ek sien dit nie.....

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:22 pm

OK, there appears to be a Serious Shortage of Vacuum Guages out there

Went to three places today, go the same story - just not getting stock from the States any more

Rich

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 8:43 pm

Uou could always install a carputor and run the Dicktator software on there to get the MAP setting

Dadz Toy BFI · Post by **Dadz Toy BFI** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:08 pm

BenHur wrote:Uou could always install a carputor and run the Dicktator software on there to get the MAP setting

:? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :? :?

In Simple Soutie Sparky Language Asbl

:roll:

Sounds more expensive than the Now Cheap Sounding R875 Model

Rich

Post by **JohanM** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:18 pm

ToyX4 wrote:Ek se weer, daai rooi hilux is soos n spook, of visvang....... ek hoor daarvan, maar ek sien dit nie.....

Riaan,

Jy praat nou so, maar as daai SFA moet kom vir sy Dicktator, dan gaan jy seker soos `n voeltjie sing tot Bennie klaar is met hom......

ToyX4 · Post by **ToyX4** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:36 pm

JohanM wrote:
ToyX4 wrote:Ek se weer, daai rooi hilux is soos n spook, of visvang....... ek hoor daarvan, maar ek sien dit nie.....
Riaan,

Jy praat nou so, maar as daai SFA moet kom vir sy Dicktator, dan gaan jy seker soos `n voeltjie sing tot Bennie klaar is met hom......

Johan, nadat ek submit gedruk het, toe onthou ek Bennie moet nog my bakkie onder oe kry, maar helaas, dit was te laat.

Pragtige bakkie wat jy het Bennie. Ek is seker daai bakkie van jou sal n datsun of n landrouwer se gat skop, net soos hy nou is

Post by **JohanM** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:39 pm

ToyX4 wrote:Pragtige bakkie wat jy het Bennie. Ek is seker daai bakkie van jou sal n datsun of n landrouwer se gat skop, net soos hy nou is

Ja nee sien daar sing jy nou mos soos `n duif wat koer........

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:44 pm

JohanM wrote:sien daar sing jy nou mos soos `n duif wat koer........

Ouens dit is n familie forum die

Post by **JohanM** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:45 pm

Dankie Niel, bly iemand sal vir Riaan in too kan hou.......

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:48 pm

JohanM wrote:vir Riaan in too kan hou

Wat se kode praat julle hier - ek hoop niks onderduims nie

Post by **JohanM** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:50 pm

Nee, natuurlik nie!!!

Jy weet mos ons praat in die lug rond en dan sien ons soms iets raak.......

Niel · Post by **Niel** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:51 pm

Ons hi jack al weer die thread

BenHur · Post by **BenHur** » Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:23 pm

ToyX4 wrote:
JohanM wrote:
ToyX4 wrote:Ek se weer, daai rooi hilux is soos n spook, of visvang....... ek hoor daarvan, maar ek sien dit nie.....
Riaan,

Jy praat nou so, maar as daai SFA moet kom vir sy Dicktator, dan gaan jy seker soos `n voeltjie sing tot Bennie klaar is met hom......
Johan, nadat ek submit gedruk het, toe onthou ek Bennie moet nog my bakkie onder oe kry, maar helaas, dit was te laat.

Pragtige bakkie wat jy het Bennie. Ek is seker daai bakkie van jou sal n datsun of n landrouwer se gat skop, net soos hy nou is

Ek hettie mooi gehoor wat jy van die blou bulle sÃª nie??

3RZ · Post by **3RZ** » Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:19 am

Rich I thought I could bring you one when I fly to Cape Town tomorrow but it seems the shops in Gauteng are also out of stock, I phoned about 10 Midas brances - no luck. It seems as if all of them are waiting for stock. You could alway buy it on e-bay, delivery time is quite good. I bought an oil filter adapter on e-bay and it took 9 days to deliver.