Kinetic Recovery Failure
- ThysdJ
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Kinetic Recovery Failure
I renamed this thread, as it is more descriptive of what we are trying to achieve...
Much has been said about this in the past, but for the first time we went out and tried to simulate this....
We all heard the advice when we bought our first 4x4.. "Get a snatch strap"... right? But nobody tells you this is an extremely dangerous piece of kit... And recovery points?? Pffft.. Toyota supplies them!!
Watch this video and see why it is necessary to fit proper recovery point with the proper rated high tensile steel hardware.. and to get all bystanders out of the way...
The speed at which that strap travels is blistering, and the weight of the shackle in the end will cause some serious harm. I tried to slow it down, but the FPS on the Gopro wasnt set right.. Next weekend we'll do better shots at better angles as well..
View Original
Much has been said about this in the past, but for the first time we went out and tried to simulate this....
We all heard the advice when we bought our first 4x4.. "Get a snatch strap"... right? But nobody tells you this is an extremely dangerous piece of kit... And recovery points?? Pffft.. Toyota supplies them!!
Watch this video and see why it is necessary to fit proper recovery point with the proper rated high tensile steel hardware.. and to get all bystanders out of the way...
The speed at which that strap travels is blistering, and the weight of the shackle in the end will cause some serious harm. I tried to slow it down, but the FPS on the Gopro wasnt set right.. Next weekend we'll do better shots at better angles as well..
View Original
Thys de Jager
CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.
2010 Hilux 3.0 D4D D/C 4x4 with GOMAD "Brood" Canopy. Tripod.
1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0 Sport. The original SFA. AGA... Gooi kole
email: thys@teamoffroad.co.za
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1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0 Sport. The original SFA. AGA... Gooi kole
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- Aquanaut
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
That is like fishing with a 100 pound line with a 2 pound tippet. Surely you would tie the shackle directly to the chassis or if you have a recovery strap, to both chassis points. Not to a piece of thin strapping??
- ThysdJ
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Surely you also wont try to recover a tree? The thin strap was there to "charge" the system with some kinetic energy so that we could demonstrate the fly-away of the kinetic strap when thin strap breaks...
Thys de Jager
CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.
2010 Hilux 3.0 D4D D/C 4x4 with GOMAD "Brood" Canopy. Tripod.
1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0 Sport. The original SFA. AGA... Gooi kole
email: thys@teamoffroad.co.za
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- LR 4WD Full Lockers
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Dis waar Basil
Maar ek dink wat oom Thys wil wys is as jou recovery point breek op jou snatch strap breek wat se skade dit kan doen.
As jy nie ordentlike recovery punte op het nie
Maar ek dink wat oom Thys wil wys is as jou recovery point breek op jou snatch strap breek wat se skade dit kan doen.
As jy nie ordentlike recovery punte op het nie
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Sien oom het my voorgespring
( nogal vinnig op n key board vir so ou man )
( nogal vinnig op n key board vir so ou man )
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Lekker toets daai. Die nadeel met die dat julle die "failure" bewerkstellig het met die nylon "strappy" is dat jy nie regtig die volle carnage kan sien nie wat daai strap gaan veroorsaak onder standaard omstandighede nie. Maar... die voordeel is jy gaan nie jou voertuig beskadig net om vir ons die verskil te wys nie.
Thanks vir julle moeite en dit sal awesome wees om daai teen 'n hoër framerate te kan sien. PS: los die musiek uit die video uit... dat mens die klanke mooi kan hoor
Thanks vir julle moeite en dit sal awesome wees om daai teen 'n hoër framerate te kan sien. PS: los die musiek uit die video uit... dat mens die klanke mooi kan hoor
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Cassie, as daai ding so vlieg met net 'n strappie wat hom "gelaai" het.. wil ek hom nie sien as die ding regtigwaar breek nie... Ek het die musiek ingesit want ons het baie tjol gepraat... Jy weet mos..
Thys de Jager
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
ek wiet mosThysdJ wrote:Cassie, as daai ding so vlieg met net 'n strappie wat hom "gelaai" het.. wil ek hom nie sien as die ding regtigwaar breek nie... Ek het die musiek ingesit want ons het baie tjol gepraat... Jy weet mos..
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Ook ons was nog nie lekker wakker nie... Gerrie loop nog in sy slaapklere rond...
Thys de Jager
CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.
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- CasKru
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Sien daai deng... Aangesien julle dit nou weer wil doen die naweek... hoekom nie so paar lee bokse of so langs die tou stapel sodat mens meer die effek kan sien nie (jy sien wat gebeur as mens met 'n goeie gedagte vorendag kom)
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Dit is 'n gedagte.... en sommer so 3 Gopro kameras op verskillende plekke ook... en dan wil ek ook die effek van 'n lanyard toets... net dat ons weet ons praat nie nonsens nie..
Lyk my ons gaan redelik baie strappies breek!!
Lyk my ons gaan redelik baie strappies breek!!
Thys de Jager
CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.
2010 Hilux 3.0 D4D D/C 4x4 with GOMAD "Brood" Canopy. Tripod.
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Ek like wat ek hier hoor...ThysdJ wrote:Dit is 'n gedagte.... en sommer so 3 Gopro kameras op verskillende plekke ook... en dan wil ek ook die effek van 'n lanyard toets... net dat ons weet ons praat nie nonsens nie..
Lyk my ons gaan redelik baie strappies breek!!
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Kom ons hoop jy like wat jy sien as ons dit gedoen het..CasKru wrote:Ek like wat ek hier hoor...ThysdJ wrote:Dit is 'n gedagte.... en sommer so 3 Gopro kameras op verskillende plekke ook... en dan wil ek ook die effek van 'n lanyard toets... net dat ons weet ons praat nie nonsens nie..
Lyk my ons gaan redelik baie strappies breek!!
Thys de Jager
CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.
2010 Hilux 3.0 D4D D/C 4x4 with GOMAD "Brood" Canopy. Tripod.
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Thanks vir die video Thys.Dit laat mens twee keur dink.Ek sien die stof wolk by die boom wat se hy het iets getref.Wys ons naderby laat ons kan sien wat die skade kan wees as hy jou of jou voertuig tref.Maar nogmals dankie,julle het baie guts om dit te doen en dit gaan baie se oe oopmaak.
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- Mud Dog
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Maak miskien 'n spaar recovery hook of shackle aan die einde van die tou vas, dan sal ons baie beter kan sien watse skade so 'n ding kan berokken!CasKru wrote:Sien daai deng... Aangesien julle dit nou weer wil doen die naweek... hoekom nie so paar lee bokse of so langs die tou stapel sodat mens meer die effek kan sien nie (jy sien wat gebeur as mens met 'n goeie gedagte vorendag kom)
Lekker video.
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Better still , fasten a tow-ball to the end of the snatch rope ..... you might have to erect red 'shooting-range' flags down at the tree when using a 'kettie' like that one!!
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
now think about the fact that a classic "tow ball recovery" will charge that kinetic strap a LOT more before it lets go !!!!!ThysdJ wrote:Surely you also wont try to recover a tree? The thin strap was there to "charge" the system with some kinetic energy so that we could demonstrate the fly-away of the kinetic strap when thin strap breaks...
I just dont think people understand HOW MUCH energy gets "charged" into a kinetic strap ...
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
They did have a shackle at the end of the line on this test done... check at the end of the video where the show the nylon strap that failed... it was tied to the shackleMud Dog wrote:Maak miskien 'n spaar recovery hook of shackle aan die einde van die tou vas, dan sal ons baie beter kan sien watse skade so 'n ding kan berokken!CasKru wrote:Sien daai deng... Aangesien julle dit nou weer wil doen die naweek... hoekom nie so paar lee bokse of so langs die tou stapel sodat mens meer die effek kan sien nie (jy sien wat gebeur as mens met 'n goeie gedagte vorendag kom)
Lekker video.
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
En dan het jy nog daai towball wat saam ook vlieg vir daai bietjie ekstra gewig...ChrisF wrote:now think about the fact that a classic "tow ball recovery" will charge that kinetic strap a LOT more before it lets go !!!!!ThysdJ wrote:Surely you also wont try to recover a tree? The thin strap was there to "charge" the system with some kinetic energy so that we could demonstrate the fly-away of the kinetic strap when thin strap breaks...
I just dont think people understand HOW MUCH energy gets "charged" into a kinetic strap ...
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
You guys are getting way ahead of yourselves here... the more weight we load on the end, the thicker the strappie will have to be to give a "representative" effect, AND the more dangerous the whole exercise becomes.. As it is this is not one of the safest things to do and should not be attempted sommer net without careful planning.
The strap and shackle alone might not have the same "stopping power" as a strap loaded with a tow-ball, but the pace at which it recoils is already blistering... and should be an eye opener to everybody who thinks of using a snatch strap on dicey recovery points..
The strap and shackle alone might not have the same "stopping power" as a strap loaded with a tow-ball, but the pace at which it recoils is already blistering... and should be an eye opener to everybody who thinks of using a snatch strap on dicey recovery points..
Thys de Jager
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
is this not why you put sand bag type with on the snatch strap... even if you take precautions, no Millicent Bystander in sight... if recovery point fails drivers still in danger ??
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Yes Dalkill, damping it with something like a sandbag or even another strap will help slow it down... But how many people do that?
Thys de Jager
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
I would like to see a test done with the damper blanket or similar... I think it would show WHY it is very important to use safety measures....
GR8 test
Thanks Guys
GR8 test
Thanks Guys
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Forget the past, Embrace the FUTURE!!!!
To 4x4 or not to 4x4 thats the question....
IT'S A JEEP ..... You wouldn't understand....
[rimg=206x128]
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
We will do more of these Jonno...MOFASA wrote:I would like to see a test done with the damper blanket or similar... I think it would show WHY it is very important to use safety measures....
GR8 test
Thanks Guys
Have camera, will film..
Thys de Jager
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
ThysdJ wrote:Surely you also wont try to recover a tree? The thin strap was there to "charge" the system with some kinetic energy so that we could demonstrate the fly-away of the kinetic strap when thin strap breaks...
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Thys nou gaan ek n groot blik wurms weer oop maak hierso....
Daai is met n shackle wat so recoil en sports maak. Ek weet dit is al baie bespreek en daar is nie eintlik eensgesindheid wat ek kan kry onder die wat baie daarmee werk nie dus maak ek weer die blik wurms oop.
Die recovery hook wat mens kry wat 10000lbs of 4500 kg kan hanteer, sal dit gereken word as n veilige punt indien dit reg vasgesit is met die nodige HT boute op die chassis direk??? Ek dink net dat as die breek of n shackle fail dan is ablei a projektiel wat baie skade kan aanrig.
Verstaan n shackle breek nie so maklik nie, maar dan moet ek ook se dat ek het nog nie self al beleef dat n recovery punt net breek nie. Seker maar omdat ek dan gewoonlik so deeglik moontlik voorberei voordat ek iemand sal uit snatch of so recvoery uit voer. Ek is maar versigtig om hard te pluk as iemand sit. Ek sal veel eerder 3/4 keer met n meer gentle approach as een maal hard pluk en die punt fail en maak sports.
So as mens nou dit ( recovery hooks) sou gebruik met n damper blanket op en safety lanyards op al die punte met n recovery bridle oor twee punte, is dit steed nie genoeg nie om as veilig gesien te word nie.
Volgens my is enige recovery nie as n "veilig" nie omdat daar baie goed is wat kan skeef loop so dit is hoekom mens altyd die meeste voorsorg moet tref met n recovery, maar ek wil net hoor by jou van die hakke en dan ook wat mens kan doen in so situasie om dit veilig te maak sou jy geen ander opsie he as om so te moet help nie.
Daai is met n shackle wat so recoil en sports maak. Ek weet dit is al baie bespreek en daar is nie eintlik eensgesindheid wat ek kan kry onder die wat baie daarmee werk nie dus maak ek weer die blik wurms oop.
Die recovery hook wat mens kry wat 10000lbs of 4500 kg kan hanteer, sal dit gereken word as n veilige punt indien dit reg vasgesit is met die nodige HT boute op die chassis direk??? Ek dink net dat as die breek of n shackle fail dan is ablei a projektiel wat baie skade kan aanrig.
Verstaan n shackle breek nie so maklik nie, maar dan moet ek ook se dat ek het nog nie self al beleef dat n recovery punt net breek nie. Seker maar omdat ek dan gewoonlik so deeglik moontlik voorberei voordat ek iemand sal uit snatch of so recvoery uit voer. Ek is maar versigtig om hard te pluk as iemand sit. Ek sal veel eerder 3/4 keer met n meer gentle approach as een maal hard pluk en die punt fail en maak sports.
So as mens nou dit ( recovery hooks) sou gebruik met n damper blanket op en safety lanyards op al die punte met n recovery bridle oor twee punte, is dit steed nie genoeg nie om as veilig gesien te word nie.
Volgens my is enige recovery nie as n "veilig" nie omdat daar baie goed is wat kan skeef loop so dit is hoekom mens altyd die meeste voorsorg moet tref met n recovery, maar ek wil net hoor by jou van die hakke en dan ook wat mens kan doen in so situasie om dit veilig te maak sou jy geen ander opsie he as om so te moet help nie.
Johan Marais
- CasKru
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Johan, Jy is reg. 'n Recovery is nooit veilig nie maar mens moet strewe daarna om dit so veilig moontlik te maak vir almal daar.
To God be the glory
- ThysdJ
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Stem saam met Cassie, Johan. Ek en jy en Cassie is veilig, en ons doen ons bes om die dinge reg te doen tot die beste van ons vermoee... maar daar is mense daar buite, en glo my ek het hulle al gesien, hulle leef, genuine... Mense wat nie 2 keer sal dink on 'n snatch strap om 'n spring hanger vas te maak of oor 'n tow-ball te gooi nie, of om shackles deur 'n stuk 3mm flatbar te sit wat met gutterbolts aan die chassis vasgebout is... Hierdie is 'n wake-up call vir daai ouens..CasKru wrote:Johan, Jy is reg. 'n Recovery is nooit veilig nie maar mens moet strewe daarna om dit so veilig moontlik te maak vir almal daar.
Jy is reg, die hake sal nie sommer breek nie, maar dit hang af van wie die roker was wat hom daar vasgebout het....
I see the need for more research in this area. We will do more stuff and record it and maybe, just maybe, we can create more awareness around this subject?
Thanks for the input guys..
Thys de Jager
CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.
2010 Hilux 3.0 D4D D/C 4x4 with GOMAD "Brood" Canopy. Tripod.
1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0 Sport. The original SFA. AGA... Gooi kole
email: thys@teamoffroad.co.za
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CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.
2010 Hilux 3.0 D4D D/C 4x4 with GOMAD "Brood" Canopy. Tripod.
1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0 Sport. The original SFA. AGA... Gooi kole
email: thys@teamoffroad.co.za
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- ThysdJ
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Re: Recovery Point Failure
Ons het 'n paar baie interresante goed agtergekom die naweek.... Will edit the videos and show you..
All I can say is that a damping blanket and a strap coiled over a kinetic strap to stop it from recoiling? Doesnt make it safe guys... It still shoots back.. and is still extremely dangerous.. Dont get too complacent..
All I can say is that a damping blanket and a strap coiled over a kinetic strap to stop it from recoiling? Doesnt make it safe guys... It still shoots back.. and is still extremely dangerous.. Dont get too complacent..
Thys de Jager
CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.
2010 Hilux 3.0 D4D D/C 4x4 with GOMAD "Brood" Canopy. Tripod.
1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0 Sport. The original SFA. AGA... Gooi kole
email: thys@teamoffroad.co.za
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CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.
2010 Hilux 3.0 D4D D/C 4x4 with GOMAD "Brood" Canopy. Tripod.
1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0 Sport. The original SFA. AGA... Gooi kole
email: thys@teamoffroad.co.za
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- ThysdJ
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Re: Kinetic Recovery Failure
Point of impact....
Thys de Jager
CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.
2010 Hilux 3.0 D4D D/C 4x4 with GOMAD "Brood" Canopy. Tripod.
1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0 Sport. The original SFA. AGA... Gooi kole
email: thys@teamoffroad.co.za
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CEO and Refreshments Manager at Team Offroad.
2010 Hilux 3.0 D4D D/C 4x4 with GOMAD "Brood" Canopy. Tripod.
1997 Jeep Wrangler TJ 4.0 Sport. The original SFA. AGA... Gooi kole
email: thys@teamoffroad.co.za
Like Team Offroad on Facebook...