Let's talk earthing...

Having problems with your vehicle? Or need advice on repairing or servicing your Hilux? This is the place to ask for help
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Baasvark
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Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:21 pm

Besides the obvious problems re starting and electrics, what other effects would there be if your earthing on a DIESEL vehicle was bad..?

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brianc
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Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:30 am

If you have poor earthing and depress the clutch when starting you will eventually destroy your release bearing.
The earth current will always find the path of least resistance and cause some carboning up where it travels which will eventually let you down at the worst possible moment, in accordance with Murphy's Law.
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Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:44 am

I don't see how that will affect the release bearing. There is no earth disconnection between transmission and motor when the clutch is used. :scratch:

Continuity remains through the bell housing and even through the spigot shaft.
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Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:57 am

A bad earth only has to do with electrics and electronics so I am struggling to understand what you are asking. I have seen some very strange and illogical things happening due to bad earth but all ultimately are electric related. A bad earth potentially has everything to do with electric issues. On modern diesels the injection timing is controlled electronically but on mechanical diesel injection systems not. Unless there is an electric diesel cut-off switch.

What are you concerned about?
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Dirka
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Wed Nov 07, 2018 11:54 am

bad earth = voltage spikes

Ground connections are important for good voltage, and if there is faulty voltage,
the regulator rectifier can run hot and will eventually fail.

If you have the sealed alternator/ generator like me with the regulator inside, say goodbye to lots of $$$$.

You might even blow the ECU or ultimately sit with a burnt out vehicle.

Maybe not a bad question afterall... :scratch:
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Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:07 pm

I am speaking from experience with cable operated clutch.
This is one of the reason for my lack of posts someone always knows better
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Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:46 pm

With a cable operated clutch and a bad earth strap between the body and the motor I can see some logic there. The motor and box are insulated from the body by the rubber in the mountings and the suspension / shock bushes complete that isolation. The clutch pedal makes direct contact to the body and transfers that contact to the cable and clutch fork in turn. The fork makes contact at two points, the pivot on the bell and through the release bearing.

So, yes, there is some logic there but I would suspect the the cable ends would be the first to go if the proper earth strap connection is that bad to shunt most of the power through the cable.

What happened in your case and how was it picked up?
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Wed Nov 07, 2018 2:28 pm

brianc wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 12:07 pm
I am speaking from experience with cable operated clutch.
This is one of the reason for my lack of posts someone always knows better
I don't think Andy was doubting what you said. Just thinking as to how that would be possible. I don't think that he was thinking of a cable operated clutch when posting.

This is very interesting and I would also like to know what happened. On what car was that? I can think that if the earth strap is bad that the current would go through the clutch cable when cranking. Especially on a front wheel drive car like Golf or Opel Kadett. In those instances where the whole cable is metal. Electricity always follows the path of least resistance.
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Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:17 pm

Interesting opinions listed so far...

Here's what I experienced:

Starter turned over with a little difficulty. This increased somewhat when I started with the clutch engaged...

Of course at the time I wasn't aware that the earth wire to the engine was totally loose.... as in hanging freely.

There are other wires earthed to the chassis as well so that's why it still started.

What I found interesting was that I had been experiencing a little less power. To the point where I wondered if my turbo was packing up....

This all disappeared when I rectified the earthing problem.

But my kz motor has a manual diesel pump - so the power loss doesn't make sense?

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brianc
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Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:57 am

No idea what happened to my explanation re what happened. Maybe Mods deleted.
That's it I'm out !!
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Thu Nov 08, 2018 12:59 pm

brianc wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:57 am
No idea what happened to my explanation re what happened. Maybe Mods deleted.
That's it I'm out !!
:o: :shock2:

I don't see anything that was deleted in the admin log .... also don't see a reason to delete something that could be useful to someone.

I've had the experience from time to time where I thought I've posted something and it's not there. Either I've omitted to "submit" before returning to the topic or I've returned too quickly before the submission has completed.

If it's not too much of a hassle, please submit again. I was really wanting to read it. Thanks.
When your road comes to an end ...... you need a HILUX!.

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Life is like a jar of Jalapeño peppers ... what you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Don't take life too seriously ..... no-one gets out alive.
It's not about waiting for storms to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
And be yourself ..... everyone else is taken!
Mars
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Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:14 pm

Baasvark wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:17 pm
Interesting opinions listed so far...

Here's what I experienced:

Starter turned over with a little difficulty. This increased somewhat when I started with the clutch engaged...

Of course at the time I wasn't aware that the earth wire to the engine was totally loose.... as in hanging freely.

There are other wires earthed to the chassis as well so that's why it still started.

What I found interesting was that I had been experiencing a little less power. To the point where I wondered if my turbo was packing up....

This all disappeared when I rectified the earthing problem.

But my kz motor has a manual diesel pump - so the power loss doesn't make sense?

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Very interesting. Does the KZTE not have an electronic fuel cut-off valve that may not have been opening properly or slightly less causing slightly lower injection pressures?
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Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:14 pm

brianc wrote:No idea what happened to my explanation re what happened. Maybe Mods deleted.
That's it I'm out !!
Brian if you are this easily offended then the internet is definitely not the right place for you.

Trust me this is the "friendliest" forum I'm part of and Andy is by far one of the best meaning good hearted posters on any forum.

We all learn from a good debate , and a far out point of view is usually one that get most of thinking again and in process everyone gets to learn something



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Jaws
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Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:18 pm

The black wire needs to be at least as big as the red wire.

I have seen installation where huge positive wires are installed and then negative is done with a wire less than halve the size .



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Baasvark
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Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:25 pm

Mars wrote:
Baasvark wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:17 pm
Interesting opinions listed so far...

Here's what I experienced:

Starter turned over with a little difficulty. This increased somewhat when I started with the clutch engaged...

Of course at the time I wasn't aware that the earth wire to the engine was totally loose.... as in hanging freely.

There are other wires earthed to the chassis as well so that's why it still started.

What I found interesting was that I had been experiencing a little less power. To the point where I wondered if my turbo was packing up....

This all disappeared when I rectified the earthing problem.

But my kz motor has a manual diesel pump - so the power loss doesn't make sense?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk
Very interesting. Does the KZTE not have an electronic fuel cut-off valve that may not have been opening properly or slightly less causing slightly lower injection pressures?
I actually don't know. But I did away with the original wiring harness.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk

Aint it ironic that "Common Sense" aint so common after all...
Thabogrobler
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Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:34 pm

Baasvark wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:25 pm
Mars wrote:
Baasvark wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:17 pm
Interesting opinions listed so far...

Here's what I experienced:

Starter turned over with a little difficulty. This increased somewhat when I started with the clutch engaged...

Of course at the time I wasn't aware that the earth wire to the engine was totally loose.... as in hanging freely.

There are other wires earthed to the chassis as well so that's why it still started.

What I found interesting was that I had been experiencing a little less power. To the point where I wondered if my turbo was packing up....

This all disappeared when I rectified the earthing problem.

But my kz motor has a manual diesel pump - so the power loss doesn't make sense?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk
Very interesting. Does the KZTE not have an electronic fuel cut-off valve that may not have been opening properly or slightly less causing slightly lower injection pressures?
I actually don't know. But I did away with the original wiring harness.

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Baasvark
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Thu Nov 08, 2018 5:06 pm

Thabogrobler wrote:
Baasvark wrote:
Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:25 pm
Mars wrote:
Baasvark wrote:
Wed Nov 07, 2018 9:17 pm
Interesting opinions listed so far...

Here's what I experienced:

Starter turned over with a little difficulty. This increased somewhat when I started with the clutch engaged...

Of course at the time I wasn't aware that the earth wire to the engine was totally loose.... as in hanging freely.

There are other wires earthed to the chassis as well so that's why it still started.

What I found interesting was that I had been experiencing a little less power. To the point where I wondered if my turbo was packing up....

This all disappeared when I rectified the earthing problem.

But my kz motor has a manual diesel pump - so the power loss doesn't make sense?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk
Very interesting. Does the KZTE not have an electronic fuel cut-off valve that may not have been opening properly or slightly less causing slightly lower injection pressures?
I actually don't know. But I did away with the original wiring harness.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk
Jou SFA nou 'n Kz in? D4D plan nie gewerk nie?
Ongelukkig nie. Nie met 'n meganiese pomp nie..... En ek wou nie die elektronika gehad het nie.

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Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:49 pm

Dirka wrote:bad earth = voltage spikes

Ground connections are important for good voltage, and if there is faulty voltage,
the regulator rectifier can run hot and will eventually fail.

If you have the sealed alternator/ generator like me with the regulator inside, say goodbye to lots of $$$$.

You might even blow the ECU or ultimately sit with a burnt out vehicle.

Maybe not a bad question afterall... :scratch:
+1

Lost my ECU and valves on the diesel pump when I replaced the KZTE's clutch some 10 years ago. I removed the engine and when putting it back the earth from the chassis to the engine was loose. A R3000 job costed me R21 000Image.

In the mean time I got myself a transmission jack.

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